Arkansas Week - May 5, 2023

Support for Arkansas Week provided by the Arkansas Democrat Gazette, The Arkansas Times and KUARFM 89.

And welcome to Arkansas Week.

I'm Dawn Scott.

Thanks for being here.

Arkansas is set to become the first state in the nation to require social media companies like Facebook and Instagram ensure that children have permission from parents to open new accounts.

A law passed by the legislature and signed by the governor is set to take effect in September, and it will require social media companies to contract with thirdparty vendors.

To perform age verification checks on new users.

Meanwhile, in the nation's capital, Senator Tom Cotton of Arkansas is among a bipartisan group of lawmakers pushing for a law to prohibit all children 12 and younger from having social media accounts and will require permission for parents of 13 to 17 year olds to open new accounts.

This proposal would also prohibit companies from using algorithms to recommend content to children.

In an interview this week with The Associated Press, Senator Cotton, a Republican, said it's something his constituents are asking for.

I've heard from so many our cans and and friends of mine whose kids are now getting into their teenage years who feel frustration, You know that.

They have the right and responsibility to raise their kids at home and in school and when they're out in the town, yet they don't feel like they have the same empowerment online.

So it it's a frustration I've heard more and more in recent years and just in the last week since we introduced our legislation, I've had so many people reach out to me and say thank you for proposing a solution for helping me get back my responsibility, my rights as a parent in the digital world that I have in the real world.

Coming up later on the program, we'll talk with a state police investigator who aims to protect children online, as well as a counselor who can offer advice to parents and discuss ways social media can be beneficial for kids.

But joining me first is Arkansas's Attorney General, Tim Griffin, who filed a lawsuit on behalf of the state against Meta Platforms that is the parent company of both Facebook and Instagram.

And two lawsuits against TikTok claiming they offer addictive content and don't do enough to protect children.

Thanks so much for being here, Attorney General.

We appreciate you.

Thank you for having me.

And you can see I'm in the the back of a rental car.

I've been at a military meeting and I appreciate y'all accommodating.

My schedule as I make my way to the airport, well, we appreciate your time and this is a very important topic.

And you've got the eyes and attention of a lot of people here in Arkansas.

You allege that these companies are violating the Arkansas Deceptive Trade Practices Act.

Tell us how that is.

Yeah.

So just to be real clear, we have three separate lawsuits, one against Meta, just Facebook and Instagram, and then we have two.

Against Tiktok.

Now, these lawsuits are not ultimately about the content, they're about the deception.

There's a thread that binds or that connects all three of these.

The commonality is deception.

So first of all, with regard to the lawsuit against Meta, that is about the addictive algorithms that they use.

To suggest content to adolescents, to everybody, but particularly to minors, what's the deception?

Well, they've made it very clear in front of Congress and elsewhere that they don't do that, that they're not in the business of trying to hook juveniles.

But the facts, and obviously we have just filed suit recently, this will be a long.

Ongoing a matter with more facts coming out, but the facts that we've gathered indicate that's not true.

They do in fact develop algorithms to addict young people.

So that's number one.

Number two, the first lawsuit against TikTok is about access to the data of Americans of Arkansas, and that lawsuit is about the fact that TikTok claims.

That no one in Communist China has access or can have access to the data that they have of Arkansans or other Americans.

We have facts that indicate that that is not the case.

And that again, is a lawsuit about deception.

The third lawsuit, the 2nd lawsuit about TikTok, relates to what content is available to.

Minors versus what Tiktok says is available.

Tiktok indicates that minors do not have access to adult content, drug use, sexual content, etcetera, that they do not have access to that until a certain age.

The facts that we've gathered indicate that's not true, in fact, the algorithms that Tiktok uses.

Pushes that adult content to minors.

Why would they want to have?

Why would they want to have people believe that they don't do that?

Well, because they get a rating on the Apple App Store or other app stores, and to get a higher rating, which helps business, they need to make the case that there's somehow protecting children from that content.

So these are all about deception.

What are your biggest concerns as far as protecting children here in Arkansas from some of the these deceptive practices that you're talking about.

Yeah.

So I appreciate.

Look, you and I have known each other a long time.

I think your kids went to school together.

I'm the I'm not just a elected official in whatever other hats I might wear.

One of the most important hats is or the most important hat is Father.

And and I have three young children and in I see with regard to them what tools are available and what tools are not available.

And I am mostly concerned that parents have the tools necessary and not just the tools but they have the information that they're not misled about what's happening.

And what's not happening?

If you were to believe Meta and TikTok, you would believe, number one, that they have not designed algorithms that called that are addictive to youth, #2, that the data of TikTok is protected properly and there's no problem there.

And #3, that your minor is not able to see stuff on TikTok that you ought to be worried about.

That's what you would believe.

If you believe what these companies are saying, that's not true.

And parents ought to know that.

And let me just say this, They're no one who's a bigger defender of the 1st Amendment than I am.

Ultimately, this is not about the content in the First Amendment.

First of all, this is about deception, which is not protected.

Secondly, in this particular case, we're we're not talking about adults.

We're talking about children.

That we regularly take steps on whether it be the sell of alcohol, the sell of the sell of cigarettes etcetera, etcetera, gambling, whatever.

We routinely take legislative steps to protect children and legal steps to protect children.

So this just makes sense to me and we are just at the beginning, but we certainly would love the opportunity.

I would love the opportunity to join you as these things as these lawsuits.

To play out, you know, Meta responded to a request for comment with its head of safety saying saying this, these are complex issues, but we will continue working with parents, experts and regulators such as the state attorneys general to develop new tools, features and policies that meet the needs of teens and their families.

Now the statement goes on to say that the company has developed what it says are 30 tools.

To support teens and their families, including tools that allow parents to decide when and for how long their teens use Instagram, along with age verification technology, among other things.

But, Mr. Griffin, you don't feel this is enough, do you?

Well, all of that.

Let's assume all of that's true.

It is.

It is a complex issue.

There are certain tools available.

We're not suing them because they don't have tools.

We're not suing them because it's not a complex issue.

We're suing them because they're not telling the truth about the algorithms that they develop.

So that's a typical bait and switch, right?

So I sue them on deception.

They answer about about tools for juveniles.

I hope they develop more tools.

Good for you.

But someone needs a tool.

For telling the truth that would be a good tool to have over it matter.

Well it puts us in a compromising position as parents because you don't know really how to govern this with your own children because you don't really know exactly what the situation is.

But you know regarding the law passed by the legislature requiring that parental consent, do you think that could effectively address the problem or we obviously probably need more than that.

Well I think it's it is one tool in parents toolbox.

And ultimately, though I will say this, we must start with a shared set of facts.

We can't have different sets of facts.

And if there's only one set of facts here and the fact is, what we're being told by Meta and TikTok is not true.

So the first thing we got to do.

Is get accountability and use 1 shared group of facts so that we as parents can react to those facts and make decisions based on facts.

In the army we call it Intel.

If you have a wrong Intel about what's going on, you will make wrong decisions.

And what I I opine and what is the basis of these lawsuits?

Is that what we're being told by the companies?

Is inconsistent with reality.

If a company sold you a product, any product, and they told you it was not harmful or it did this or that, and that wasn't true, and you relied on that, that would be a problem under the Arkansas Deceptive Trade Practices Act.

We deal with that a lot.

You've seen the news stories, you've covered some.

In this case, deception is what we're talking about.

And that's where my focus will remain so that parents at the end of the day can make good decisions about their kids.

You know, back to new state laws and legislation passed.

Your office would defend the state if a lawsuit were filed challenging that.

And there, you know, obviously then are suggestions this is a free speech issue.

But do you feel the state law is constitutional?

Yes.

So I can tell you this, I was extremely active.

As I think any attorney general should be during the legislative session and if I had concerns about the constitutionality of bills, I was very vocal, often times behind the scenes and letting people know what I thought was the constitutional and what was not.

I don't have any problems, any concerns about the constitutionality of this bill.

Again, what we are talking about is juveniles we routinely.

We routinely do things to protect juveniles and I think this is another case of that.

This is not a free speech issue.

And remember, my suits are not about in in TikTok and Meta or about deception.

In this particular case we are talking about age verification for juveniles.

It's I see no constitutional concerns there.

All right.

Attorney General Tim Griffin, we appreciate your time and joining us.

While you're on the road, thank you so much for your thoughts on this and all the great information.

We appreciate you.

Thank you so much.

We'll be back with more on social media and its effects on children after this, Welcome back.

We continue our conversation on social media and this time it's impact on children.

Please welcome Lenore Palladino, an Intel analyst with the Arkansas State Police and a member of the Internet Crimes Against Children Task Force.

Also Dr. Buster Lackey, a counselor and director of the National Alliance of Mental Illness here in Arkansas.

Thank you both for being here.

This is such an important topic and one that has so many levels to it.

But let's begin with you, Lenore, if we can, how prevalent is?

The targeting of children for victimization here in Arkansas, Do criminals use the social media platforms to find children?

Absolutely.

It is very prevalent here in Arkansas.

Since May of 2022, we've received over 4000 reports of online Child Exploitation from the National Center for Missing Exploited Children.

If your child is is one of these children, how do you know if they're being targeted?

What?

What do they look for?

What should children say to their parents if they see something or experience something?

Well, you should start the conversation well before something bad happens.

We should have an open conversation about Internet usage with our children on a daily basis because they're going to use the Internet on a daily basis.

They have to use it for school and for social activities and for church and things like that.

So, an open conversation about what are you doing?

Let me see what apps you have.

You know, explain.

Before a child wants to use an app or download an app, the parents should ask them why do you want that?

What are you going to do with it?

Who else is using it?

And they should also check to see if that app has a way to report behaviors that are inappropriate if the app doesn't have a way to report that sort of behavior.

Then you want to delete that app because obviously they don't care about what goes on on their platform.

It's really just mind boggling to think about it.

At Full disclosure, I have teenage children.

You all have children you've shared with me of the age that use social media and you know, you you start these conversations sometimes with them and there's defensiveness.

Like don't take it away from me.

Is there a way to say, hey, if anyone ever does this or if someone ever says this?

Come to me and let me help you.

I mean with is that an appropriate way to start, in your opinion?

Well, when I do community outreach with groups of children, one of the main things, the one of the first things I bring up, is for them to think about a trusted adult.

Or two, that they have in their life, someone that they could go to and tell them it may not be their family.

You know, they may not feel comfortable.

Because some of these things do deal with sex and it can be embarrassing to talk about sex with your mom or dad or your grandmother, whoever it is your caregiver.

So think about a couple of trusted adults that you could go and tell this and they can help you tell your caregiver your parents and they can lead you through how to resolve the problem.

So.

That's what I did with my own daughter when she was young.

Think about a trusted adult.

I never asked her who they who she chose because it's personal.

But before something happens, you should have those sorts of things in place and have conversations.

If they're on Instagram, how does that make you feel?

And you know what?

What is it you like about it?

What you know?

What don't you like about it?

And then you know, if you find some some things you're concerned about, then we have mental health professionals that.

Well, and that was kind of my next pivot to get to you.

We have, we've talked about this and we've heard, I've heard about this, that the pandemic after the pandemic, kind of a silent pandemic of just high rates of depression and upset and hopelessness among teenagers specifically who have now turned to their phone as their primary source of connection.

Yeah, the the world actually the World Health Organization has issued a a silent a secondary pandemic being the silent pandemic of depression.

And what we saw, what we're seeing is that you know we we were all isolated for so long the kids had nothing to do but be on social media.

And now a lot of those things they're they're carrying on.

They're they, you know they're Googling and they're watching these videos has been put out by social influencers that can be.

Can be damaging to the to the child because it you know every child wants to have something every other child's got and you.

And what they don't realize is the social influencers are being compensated or given products by these different you know vendors that when they when they do a innocent little prank on on their video it becomes the law breaking when our kids do it.

Because it goes too far.

It becomes a cruel prank.

And then now we're facing legal issues and we've got depression and there's eating problems because whatever fad diet they're pushing on that as a social influencer, everybody wants to be like them.

Or the image of perfection that, you know, you can doctor photos and people can look perfect.

You know, I don't want to demonize.

Social media, because there are so many positives to it, you know, and our kids, whether we like it or not, are being raised this way.

And so really, I think as parents and professionals, you have to kind of teach them how to navigate.

Of course, we never had to navigate it.

So how do you learn to teach something that you don't really know anything about other than that you use it maybe.

No kid is going to tell their parent everything and and if you think your kids are, then we need to have a conversation.

But but you've got to start having those conversations and breaking down that barrier and ending that stigma and just having these conversations that not everything you see on there is real and not everything that everybody posts is for good.

It's it's for bad.

And I think that's where we have to start is by open, honest and frequent dialogue.

We need to make sure that we're not shaming the child, that we're not.

The child doesn't feel like what you're asking him or her you're going to use against them later.

You know, I talked to parents who've, you know, had their children exposed on the Internet and I beg them, please, just, you know.

Their little heads aren't formed yet, and they really sometimes don't know how to make the best decisions.

And we do need to guide them.

And you know, we can use this as a learning situation or, you know, we can turn it into a worse situation if you're not.

If you don't respond correctly to that and Don, one of the things that I think, as we pointed out is, you know, a lot of times when we have these things and a picture's been exposed and it's been shared in it, everybody thinks it's the girls.

Well that's just really not true.

Boys are more likely to share inappropriate photos because it's cool, fun, whatever.

And they're the ones that's getting distorted called sex distortion for the money where girls and women are getting sex distorted for more photos.

I know we we had this conversation it it is one of the things right now that the the state police and and I know the FBI says is is a major problem.

And it's and it's caused extortion.

We have had several children across the country commit suicide, especially boys when this has happened to them.

I had a report the other day and then the child reported to Snapchat and he said I'm very, very scared and that's that's very frightening because we don't, I don't know what scared means to him and what he was.

Planning to do with that, but I was able to locate his caregiver and talk to them about it.

So they would make could make sure that nothing would happen to him by his own hand and you know, he would get through that.

But it's very concerning that and just to be clear that the term the sextortion is taking a photo and spreading it, that's in a compromise just explaining exactly what that is sextortion happens is.

A person will pose as someone who would be attractive to a 16 year old, 15 year old boy or girl.

But mostly we've got a lot of boys involved in this now.

They'll pose maybe as a young girl and say, hey, you're really cute.

Could I get an A picture?

And eventually the boys, I mean, they all know that they're not supposed to do that, but they do it anyway.

And then they find out it's a man from.

Ivory Coast in Nigeria is where we're having the most problems right now.

And they'll share the photo and they will keep the photo and tell them that they need to cash at $500.00 to them or whatever.

And the kids are like, I don't have that kind of money and they get very worried, upset, and sometimes they do commit suicide over this sort of thing, you know?

It comes back to parenting though, just like we were talking about previously, Have the conversations, talk.

Don't shame, just as you had mentioned, but help them navigate this and if you have an open commute line of communication with their children, 9 times out of 10 they'll come to you If they're afraid or if they're upset, right?

They feel like they can tell you.

Our website, aricat.org has got resources for parents, teachers, children.

And broken down in categories, you can go read some of those resources, learn how to talk to your children about these things.

Our task force also does community outreach for parent groups, for children and things like that.

And if you're struggling mentally or you're a parent out there and you see changes in your children, like what do you look for?

How do you know that it's tied to social media, for example?

Well, I mean, sometimes it's hard to figure that out at first, but you had, again, it's the isolation.

The, you know, moodiness, changing their behaviors, their eating habits, you know, not not wanting to get up out of bed, not wanting to go to school and not wanting to do the things that they like to do.

And.

And those are the some of those first warning signs that something's not right.

Yeah.

And if they're, if they're very, very upset about being separated from their devices because they want to continue that contact, then that is another big red flag.

Yeah, because, you know, because you got somebody making a threat.

If you don't give me $500.00, I want to expose these photos of you and you're you're you're you're watching for that next message to come in.

You're not wanting to let mom or dad have that phone or put it down for any time.

And that's where because they don't go tell mom or dad that, hey, this has happened.

Then they get themselves into more and it just gets deeper and deeper and their mental health becomes more and more effective.

I'd like for you to repeat the address that you gave us just for resources and information.

You gave a web address just a moment ago, but we're going to put that up on the screen just so that people, if they need to reach out, can a R, ICAC, icac.org.

And on that site there's also I will link to another site called Common Sense, Common Sense Media that is a fantastic site you put your child's age in.

And it will give you reviews for everything from TV shows to games to apps to see how appropriate is for your age child.

Yeah.

Thank you both so much for sharing with us.

We so appreciate you Doctor Buster Lackey, the director of National Alliance on Mental Health here in Arkansas.

Such an important topic and one that we're going to have to continue to speak about as the the weeks and months go on.

And also Lenore Palladino, the Intel analyst with Arkansas State Police.

And again, a member of the Internet Crimes Against Children Task Force, great information from you both.

Thank you so much for being here.

Thank you.

And that will wrap it up for us this week on Arkansas Week.

Thanks for tuning in.

Support for Arkansas Week provided by the Arkansas Democrat Gazette, the Arkansas Times and KUARFM 89.