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Add hello again everyone and thanks very much for joining us for Arkansas Week in our state.

The coronavirus and communities of color is the immunization, imperative, persuasive or is suspicion and resentment still inhibiting African American Arkansans?

Latinos, Asians Pacific Islanders?

Well, we'll update that story in a few moments, but first, the conservative ascendancy in Arkansas, not in generations as the Republican Party.

Racked up so many victories in a single legislative session, not all of those wins have been to the Republican governors liking, and certainly not to a shrunken Democratic base and its customary allies.

An assessment now from one of the leaders of the General Assembly's controlling block Senator of Mark Johnson, Republican of Ferndale Ann, from the opposite corner, at least on many issues.

Holly Dixon, executive director of the Arkansas branch of the American Civil Liberties Union and thanks to both of you for coming in, Senator Johnson.

Thanks for risking the studio, I think, although both of us, I think I've had both my shots shots had no complications, so at least I can only speak for the Pfizer.

Version, but so far so good.

Well, we're all healthy, at least for the moment.

But let me run through these very quick on matters of ****** identity, abortion, gender identity.

Election laws, firearms of voting rights.

You have been on the prevailing side.

And the prevailing side has been a. I think it's fair to say hard right Republican side what is happening here.

Well, Steve, I think that it's not just about what's happening with the Republicans, it's partially about what's happening with the other party.

I don't think people of Arkansas philosophically have changed a lot.

The parties have certainly changed.

We go back to the days when people could say, well, the Democrats, their their conservative Democrats there, Arkansas Democrats and.

And they were in large part and and now many of them that are still alive, that I've gotta know identifies Republicans because the parties have shifted, especially at the national level so far to the Democrats have gone so far to the left.

That it it's not following what most people, at least Anna majority.

I'm not saying everyone of course, would call Arkansas values and I think some of these social issues that we've seen are especially indicative of that.

Well, you have.

You may have guaranteed Miss Dixon Miss Dixon's job, at least for the near term anyway for the next couple of years, but cause ACLU has vowed to to take your side to court on several of these issues.

Are you confident that they can withstand a constitutional challenge you've survived in the political arena?

Can you survive in the judicial?

I'm confident we can.

All most of those things.

Steve, sadly, when you go into federal court, you don't know what you're going to get.

We have like 1.

Federal judge I won't name her, but she seems to get all the cases dealing with abortion issues and seems to always rule against the state of Arkansas and often gets overturned at the appellate level.

So I'm not.

I've learned along time ago, don't predict what judges will do, but as far as the support of the people of Arkansas, I think we have an overwhelming amount of support.

I think the people of Arkansas are.

Generally well to the right of center.

That doesn't mean on every issue.

Of course.

We have some that are more fiscal Conservatives and less social Conservatives, but I think that when you talk about absolute open abortion doesn't matter.

The issue doesn't matter the age.

If the baby is almost born, you can still kill it.

I think that the people of Arkansas against that type of thing.

And I think when we we see these positions taken at the national level, this.

Slippery slope tord.

Some of the leftist positions I think a lot of people in Arkansas have dug in their heels and say no, this is wrong.

It violates common sense and it violates my particular moral values and consequently their their voting for the Republican candidates who have those things in their platform.

Well, let me go to Hallie Dixon, Miss Dixon.

Go ahead and your response to the senator.

You're online.

But this now?

Thank you, thanks for having me with you today.

I would question the label of this being a conservative platform at all because conservative platform would be limited.

Government staying out of the lives of the people of the State of Arkansas.

And as a lifelong archanes, and I feel like I'm pretty in touch with Arkansans values as well and I don't see folks clamoring for politicians to push social issues of the day as priorities in the state legislature.

I think our Kansas want to be left alone.

They don't want defensive devisive policies.

They want things that actually solve problems that we have.

Healthcare, education, roads, issues with the pandemic, racial justice reform, you know, and we're not seeing that out of this General Assembly.

I also know there is not abortion until babies are almost alive the the Roe versus Wade framework has been in place for years since 1973 that abortion can be banned post viability and that is still the law and that's why the state continually loses in court.

That is the standard and I understand that some politicians don't agree with that legal standard, but that is the standard that is in place and so that's why you see the outcomes that you do.

And rarely are those trial court decisions overturned at the federal appellate level.

Well, you're going to need some plaintiffs, and I suspect that you can find them.

Is there.

What are your?

What is the ACLU's property?

What are we likely to see in the courtroom first?

The first thing we're going to see in the courtroom is a challenge to House Bill 1570, which bans gender affirming care for all trans youth in Arkansas, and it bans healthcare providers from even providing referrals for gender affirming care.

We've heard from every major medical organization across this nation and in this state, as well as health care providers who treat these patients and these patients parents that this bill is contrary to the health of young Arkansans in.

Nonetheless, I know the Legislature overwhelmingly voted to ban this healthcare.

It's dangerous, it's deadly, and will be going to court in that as quickly as possible.

We were not going to have trouble finding plaintiffs we've been hearing from terrified families for months.

'cause a central may come back to you for saying you're in fact the Senate where the Legislature voted to override your bucking your own governor, the governor of your own party here who vetoed 15 seven.

Yes he did.

And he also was criticized strongly by former President Trump just yesterday over that.

It's Steve and I I have to take great issue with Holly's characterization of killing a baby in the womb that they're almost alive.

We've learned through the years, it took awhile for us.

Come around sometimes, but the technology that lets you see a baby in the womb sucking its thumb.

That's a human being.

And that's where we tend to differ with some of the so called Pro Choice people on that.

The same thing with this issue in 1570 of the gender reassignment surgery and the the puberty blockers and the other things we don't see that as healthcare.

We see that as a life changing, probably permanent.

Possibly laugh ending change.

In some cases she talks like the medical profession is unanimous in their position on this.

They are not.

Many doctors say this is a terrible thing.

Actually the one of the leading people on the *** change surgery was a doctor at Johns Hopkins University who after years of study has stepped forth and basically said, you know, we were wrong.

There's still a lot of psychological problems.

This doesn't solve peoples problems that are.

Are confused about gender and and and once again this is important for everyone to know.

This bill doesn't have anything to do with what an adult does related to *** change surgery or anything like that.

This is about children.

Well, this was brought up Senator.

I mean, this surgical procedures are not being implemented are performed on on masses in the bill.

Whatever that you say or the bill covers that and what it basically says is when you're a kid, don't abuse it.

Don't don't abuse children.

Now some people say Oh well, this child.

He decided he's a he's he's he's now a girl so we've got to affirm that in every way we can both a medically chemically surgically or whatever.

But should this be a political issue?

Though I think it absolutely should be.

We don't.

Don't let people give alcohol to people under age.

We've even gone so far.

You and I.

Member young people smoked in high school.

We've banned that we're now stepping forth and saying we're going to.

We're going to protect children against something that is bad for children generally, and the idea that someone would make a life altering decision that's irreparable for a minor is just abhorrent to most of us.

And I think the vote, original vote and the vote to override the governor's veto.

Is indicative of that it's indicative of the feelings of the people of Arkansas.

Well, let me give Holly Dixon some more time here.

In fairness, Miss Dixon.

So it was very clear, even sponsored, the bill said no one is performing gender affirming surgery on children in the state of Arkansas.

This bill bans puberty blockers and hormone treatment and other pair for transgender youth.

It also invites insurance companies to deny coverage for gender affirming care for youth and adults, so no ones making life altering decisions that are are non reversible on behalf of children.

And this is what physicians who treat these children and parents LendUp tamatam again within their allotted 2 minutes, tried to explain to the members of the Arkansas General Assembly, and it is an incredible overreach on behalf of the Legislature to substitute its judgment for that of the child.

It's the child's parents and the caregivers who know best about what's going on in that individual child's lives.

It's a sweeping intrusion on their right to privacy on their right to parental autonomy and due process where we're issuing a blanket band that is harmful on this type of health care, and it's indicative of the types of other types of actions that we've been seeing passed through the General Assembly this session.

Well, let me go back to Senator Johnson here on the broader Sphero number on the broader matter.

To the extent that they can or that they are separate or can be separated, what is what is?

What's the difference here is that politics is it culture?

Is 1 shaping the other or is there a certain synergy here or what?

Steve, I don't think you can separate those things.

You know we have philosophes I'm talking bout both Democrats, Republicans and even moderates within those groups.

We have philosophes.

But we also hear from our constituents and they overwhelmingly supported House Bill 1570, and we actually probably got more support after the governor's veto.

I think it was.

A shock to them.

He was.

He appeared on Tucker Carlson's show on Fox.

Three nights ago, I think an Tucker Carlson really seriously took him to task as a so-called conservative Republican, and I I think that shocked a lot of our Republicans around the state to see Governor Hutchinson.

Capitulate in in some ways to some of the corporate interests that are pushing this and and we know what is capitulate is that you're the governor.

Said he didn't get any calls from any corporate people, but Tucker Carlson pressed him on that issue and and the following night actually said that he was not telling the truth on that, but I'm and I don't know who the governor talked to.

I do know that I got emails from corporate interests saying we want this.

Because it will help us recruit more people from out of state that believe this way and I just don't think that's a reasonable way to make any kind of public policy decision.

All right?

Hallie Dixon, if the senator is correct here and the politics and the culture are one in the same, what option does that leave?

The this is purely going to be found out in the judicial arena.

He seems to be saying, the senator.

Well, yes, if they pass a law that's unconstitutional, then we go to the judicial branch.

However, these are not bills that were conceived in Arkansas or pushed by Arkansas constituents.

It's a coordinated effort from groups outside the state of Arkansas.

That's why we're seeing the same bills in 26 other state.

That's why Alabama has a similar bill to 1570.

That's why Tennessee has a bill similar to 1570.

And if corporations have said anything about 1570 and its ban on trans youth healthcare, I'd be.

Keen to hear about it.

I've only heard them speaking out about a broader health care refusal conscience bill that they opposed and speaking up on hate crimes.

I've not heard any corporations speak to the healthcare denial for transcript.

Later on on hate crimes, the administration's hate crime is it appears to be settling for the one that's making its way through.

That's a weird bill, Steve.

I voted against it.

It's really.

It's just someone looking for a way to check the box, whether it's at our large corporations won't be able to say see we have a we have a hate crimes bill and in other cases it's it's got some good things in it.

It talks about truth in sentencing and my words not the legislation but but to come back to us.

What Holly's talking bout quickly ACLU likes to throw out unconstitutional an we see we see we Conservatives see babies as human beings just like.

In the in the 19th century, people solve black people as chattel and not human beings.

We evolved on that just like we have on the issue of abortion.

We know that these unborn babies are human beings just like black people were in 1859.

I've got to give Miss Dixon the last word because you had the first word so well.

We do agree that the C622 the the current hate crimes is it weird bill and also we do not support that but.

Arkansas was the last state to pass a state civil rights law, and we ought to be including gender identity and ****** orientation in our state civil rights law, so I think that's the problem with us trying to pass a hate crimes law now as we can't even agree that people should have civil rights at all if they're LGBTQ part of the LGBTQ community.

But I also think that there that there's a lot more going on here, and this is not just about attacks on women's reproductive health care.

Or on transgender kids and transgender Arkansans?

I think it's covered for all of the attacks on voting rights and free speech, and criminalizing the poor an interfering with education and all the other individual liberties and personal autonomy that we have.

Because we're seeing power grabs from the people from cities and counties and local control.

And it's a very broad sweeping set of bills that are doing this, and we I think we have to end it there because we're simply out of time.

Holly Dixon of the ACLU senator Mark Johnson.

Thank you very much for being with us, thanks.

Thank you.

And we'll be right back.

And we're back now with our segment on Arkansas and Covid it's.

Except it in every branch of medicine, the low income are especially prone to ailments such as diabetes, hypertension, coronary disease.

They are less likely to have easy access to clinical care.

They are more likely to live in close quarters with extended family, sometimes friends.

Thus are the low income especially susceptible to viral actors such as COVID-19 also disproportionately represented African Americans, Asian Americans, Pacific Islanders, Latinos Native Americans.

So joining us now to assess the situation.

Nurse practitioner Barbara McDonald of the University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences.

She's been on the front lines of the immunization campaign from the start and La Shannon Spencer, CEO of Community Health Centers of Arkansas.

Both of you thank you very much for coming aboard.

Miss McDonald.

Let's let's begin with you.

Or do you?

Do we continue to see this disparity in the immunization rates among people of color in Arkansas?

I think that we did have a disparity, but we have been doing a lot of outreach to try and go to the communities and so seeing a greater percentage of African Americans and Hispanics overall getting vaccinated now.

So we are making some headway in that regard.

Yes, Sir.

Leshana water what's at work here?

Outreach we.

We tailored our approach or what and then that's a good question.

We've actually tailored our approach and it hasn't been one single entity, but it's been about partnership.

And in entities actually coming together in order to create a greater sense of awareness and provide the necessary education that's actually needed.

So the numbers have been improving across the state.

Let me go back to Miss McDonald for a second, what, what, what?

The resistance to immunization to vaccination.

What form is it taking?

What are you?

What are you seeing?

What are you hearing out there?

I'm hearing that some people are not actually looking into the actual data and the research, and so they're going according to gossip and not getting the knowledge and then the other thing I think is access so meaning that sometimes people don't have a means to get to the location or where they don't have Wi-Fi access, so.

Don't have the stability of that.

Well in terms of of reluctance to take the vaccine when it is available.

The skepticism is there.

What's at work there?

Myth fear.

I think it's fear and myth, but I think as now that we've opened up the availability for everybody to get vaccinated as their leaders and the people that they admire that they will then start.

To be more willing, Ann.

Open to getting vaccinated.

Yeah, Miss Spencer I it's it's credibility.

I think that counts so often and you're absolutely correct.

It is the credibility and our particular Health Center over in the eastern part of our state.

E Arkansas.

When we talked to many of the patients that stood in line to be vaccinated just on April 1st, they talked about the build and trust that they actually had with the clinicians and the staff at East Arkansas Family Health Center.

So that definitely makes a difference to have that built in trust.

Not only just from that clinic or Health Center, but also based on the leaders that the community leaders as well.

Well, let me ask both of you this the numbers that I'm seeing on the.

The disparity anyway in overall immunization rates, it's not true only in the South, but it's true.

Especially, it would seem to be true, especially in the South.

Miss Spencer.

You're absolutely correct.

And when you started looking at the data, you know you have so many states that really gets down into the data when it comes to minorities, it's an issue and I've said it before on your show.

We need to have a better system of actually capturing the data in order to really improve the outcomes.

When you start looking at Mississippi and the uptake in the vaccine, specially when you started looking at at North Carolina just recently, the Kaiser actually did a report and actually listed out the racial uptake within the vaccine.

I wish that it is my hope one day that Arkansas will be able to provide such clear picture of the data when it comes to race as well.

Well, I am also reading some data that indicates there is odd, as it may sound although.

Not especially given the temper of the time, there is a distinction in or a difference in political acceptance by partisan factor.

It is an I forgot to thank you for allowing me to actually be on your show, but when we really start looking at Arkansas, so you talk about the hesitancy among African Americans, we still have that greater hesitancy among rule communities as well.

And when I say rule white rule men.

Politics is really made an impact or had an impact on the uptake of vaccine with white roll men.

And then it just gives me great pause because we need to reach herd immunity.

And if we don't we will continue to face an uptick in positive cases.

Barbara McDonald.

Are you picking that up?

Among white rural males anyway?

Yes, most definitely within my circle and within just them.

Not wanting to get vaccinated wives patients coming into like I'm here to get it, but I can't get my spouse to come.

Well.

I mean, what is this skepticism toward government suspicion of government or misplaced masculinity of Hemingway syndrome?

It's a miss place of government and it's just it's politics at at Hannah Ann.

I believe it just started and it's become more political than thinking about the health outcome, not only just of yourself or your family as well as your community.

We've allowed politics to impact where we are right now pertaining to kovat 19 Miss McDonald, what's the antidote to this not to?

No pun intended.

I think honestly it's gonna be communication and being out there and being present and then peer pressure.

I think all of that will combine to help get more people vaccinated.

Well in terms of the latest data that I was able to capture from the CDC is that Arkansas has done a somewhat good job of of immunizing those 65 or older, but not only here but across the country.

The demographic group that's really taking it on the chin now are those 35 and younger.

Miss McDonnell you seeing that?

I would say yes, although now and most my most recent travels like to Henderson College, I saw that the coaches and the teachers were able to encourage their students to go ahead and get vaccinated.

I also saw it when we were at Philander Smith, which is a traditionally historically black college where the peers were able to get their classmates to come and get vaccinated.

So again, I think that the.

Presence of those that they trust.

An peer pressure will get more people vaccinated.

Well, I said it was perhaps I should correct myself, Miss Spencer because I said it.

We've done a fair job of immunizing the latest CDC that I'm seeing is that of those eligible in Arkansas.

Only about 38% have been immunized to at least at least one dose.

Uh, and this vaccine's been available now for six weeks or longer.

Window grayed out.

Work out poran educating.

We're really going to have to really explore together collectively more avenues in order to an increase that number or to increase the education rate.

When it comes to the COVID-19 vaccine, it's still there and we're all working as partners to try to figure out the best solution to make sure that everyone is vaccinated.

The supply is there, so it's not a matter of like it was months ago, not having enough vaccines.

We actually have enough vaccines in the state now.

It's just a matter of individuals making up their minds to actually take the vaccine.

God, I end it there because we're out of time.

Thanks so much.

Shannon Spencer, Barbara McDonald.

Thank you for your time and come back soon.

Ann will be back next week.

Support for Arkansas Week provided by the Arkansas Democrat Gazette.

The Arkansas Times and KUER FM 89.