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Hello again everyone and thanks very much for joining us when his time in the General Assembly began a quarter century ago, Jim Hendron was recognized as one of its most conservative members in recent years and especially in recent months, Mr Hendron's distant stems distanced himself from his Republican parties.

More doctrinaire positions as Senate President Protem, he helped his uncle Governor Hutchinson maintain funding for the Medicare Medicaid expansion that he.

Mr Hendron once opposed at the same time he helped the administration scuttle some legislation that was supported by very ardent social Conservatives.

This week, Senator Hendron ended months of speculation.

One aspect of it anyway, by announcing that he was leaving the Republican Party.

Ann founding an organization called Common Ground Arkansas.

It's announced premise.

Is pragmatism over partisanship in the pursuit of public policy?

Mr Hendron's critics in both parties say they think there's something else afoot.

Senator Jim Hendron joins us.

Now, Senator, thanks very much for making yourself available.

All thanks for having me Steve.

Well, you have heard the criticism.

It's from left from right from Democrats from Republicans.

So I'll give it to you so you can take it head on your critics say that this is that common ground.

Arkansas is purely a vehicle for you an your anticipated run for governor.

Your response.

Well, in politics people say all sorts of things and you have to sometimes sort through to find out what the truth is.

So there's one person who knows why I'm doing what I'm doing with common ground Arkansas and I'll say there's lots of other folks they're going to be involved in.

This is as well, and that's me.

And I'm telling you, and as I've said from the beginning, this is not about a gubernatorial race.

This is about building a political home for people like my 4 adult children who don't feel at home in either the Republican Party or the Democratic Party right now.

It's gotten further and further extreme, and there is no place that represents civility, problem solving, and the practical forms of governance that people in Arkansas have have always preferred.

So as the parties have diverged, there is this big gaping hole in the middle and common ground.

Arkansas is going to seek to fill it.

Now, whether or not that I've ever turns into a gubernatorial race or not.

I I'm not worrying about right now because believe me, the focus is building this organization so it can make a change in Arkansas because I believe it's necessary.

Well, this order when when will it begin to worry you?

The possibility of a race?

How close are you?

Well, one thing I have clarified is I'm not going to be running as a Republican for any political office in 2022.

I've decided that I'm going to be somebody without a party and I'm going to begin to run and serve as an independent, so that certainly kicks the ball down the road because there will be no primary.

They'll be, they'll be if I am in any election, it would be in the fall of 2022.

The other thing I would say is one of the purposes of common Ground Arkansas is to identify good, solid candidates, independent candidates, Republican candidates, Democrat candidates.

Some of those may be more suited and better able to run for governor than me.

Or we may not want to focus on the governor's race.

If after we build this organization, we find that it just.

Feudal, so I'm about strategy and trying to win, and that's part of the way you talked about my change in governance.

Just because I went from a minority party where there were 13 Republicans to the majority party where I was the president of the Senate and my uncle was the governor and it was our job to make things work and there's a difference.

And so I think people like for things to work.

They like for their state government to work and that's what we're going to be focusing on.

So at some point when it becomes impractical to start a race, then they'll be a decision made.

But my effort and my focus is making common ground Arkansas Aplace, where people who feel politically homeless have have somewhere to go and to work and get us back to solving problems rather than screaming at each other in unveiling common ground.

Arkansas Mr Hendron you or if you were openly critical of the immediate past, president of the former President, the three individuals who are now well now the two individuals who are candidates for announced candidates for the Republican gubernatorial nomination.

Are tide or have tide themselves quite tightly to Mr Trump?

Could you assess the Republican field?

Do you have issues with Miss Sanders General Rutledge?

Well.

Clearly what I have made you know started commonground Arkansas floor is because I think that the nationalization of our state politics is a mistake.

I don't think that we should be sending push cards out.

As I said during the November election with Bernie Sanders and AOC, or Trump on in state legislative race, I don't think we should imitate the partisanship in Little Rock that they have in Washington DC, and that's what's begun to happen.

So what we've seen so far is no question.

An effort to see who can be the most Trump, because that is success in a Republican primary and common.

Conventional wisdom says if you win a Republican primary, you're going to win the election.

Common ground Arkansas in this movement is to say maybe conventional wisdom needs to change.

Maybe there needs to be a center path and some discussion about finding some room and some place for people in the middle who don't want to be have to choose continue to choose between the furthest right extreme candidate and a far left extreme candidate.

Maybe they just want the problem solving practical candidate was not at the house.

This is going to affect the dynamic of your Senate incumbency net.

You're no longer a Republican.

Are you going to caucus with the Democrats or you're going to be one among 335?

Well, people ask me if First off, it's unprecedented.

I don't think I've ever served with that independent.

I tell him I have served in an extreme minority with 13 out of 100, so it's not that much different.

Different ratio in the Senate with one out of 35.

But I'm not going to caucus with the Democrats or the Republicans.

And Cox is to be honest with you, are really just sitting around talking.

I'm going to be more interested in continuing to build relationships and and that's not going to change.

I've sponsored legislation with Democrats Senator Ingram when he was the Minority Leader and I was the Majority Leader.

We sponsored legislation together to increase the.

Pay for state police I can.

I will continue to work across the aisle and of course now I'm kind of in the House, but to believe me I've had good support from many of my Republican colleagues.

They want to continue to work with me.

They know that I'm passionate about trying to find ways to work together and solve problems, and that's going to continue.

What path senator, in terms of public policy in crafting public policy, were all part of a state that went more strongly for Mr. Trump last year than it did?

Four years previously, quite an appetite, it would seem anyway among the broad electorate, Arkansas Electric, for the kind of issues that he has emphasized over the over the years.

What is the path forward for a more centrist view?

How much appetite is there?

Senator, you know.

I guess one of the things I would say is I don't make my decisions based on.

What's the easiest path?

What's the most winnable path?

That's what politicians do, and I just think we've got too much of that.

I make my decisions based on what I what do I think is the right thing to do.

What do I think is the best thing for Arkansas to do?

And I do think that that there is a change beginning to occur in Arkansas.

There is a change that the nationalization of these state races may be causing us more problems than solving problems.

So I think there is a path.

I think it somebody has to start.

There has to be a beginning but believe me from the phone calls, emails the best text messages that I have gotten from all over the state.

There's a lot of people out there who are ready for something like this.

They're tired of having to choose between what they consider to be too extreme choices, so I am confident that we will find a way to have success center.

Could you be?

Could you clarify a bit, explain a bit more about what particular policy is now about now being debated, that you regard as either too far right, too far left?

Well, I'll give you an example and clearly it's one I've been working on, which is hate crimes legislation that should not be a hard bill to pass when 47 other states have done it.

An the fact is, Republican states in the last two years have done it.

Every state around us that's Republican has done it, but in Arkansas it's still an incredible lift because we have so much pressure from the right wing.

The right extreme of the Republican Party that Republicans are afraid to vote for legislation like that out of fear of being primaried for being too liberal because they do what 47 other states have done its legislation like that where I see groups bringing pressure to bear.

To take the votes and the policy out of the mainstream so that that's one example, there's many, I think, stand your ground can be another example.

Nobody's clamoring for that legislation overwhelmingly supported by the Republicans because of the concern about what might happen if they fail to pass that in a primary.

There's no counter pressure from the center from where most people are.

Most people in Arkansas identify as independents are almost as many as Republicans.

According to the 2020 polling, and more than Democrats, and they have no voice right now.

So I think there is a huge path on policy issues like that where people say, let's do what's good for Arkansas and quit listening to the loudest and many times the smallest number of people on the extremes.

As Senator, there have been other or so called 3rd way and I'm lumping them together here.

3rd way type of organizations.

Over the years.

One recently was.

I'm trying to know labels.

Yeah, I'm sorry the they have not seemed to have left an enormous footprint.

What will make yours different?

Well, I think you're going to see some people involved in this besides myself, that have some experience have some credibility.

And I think we'll have the support and resources necessary to have a bigger impact and have more likely chance of success and what we've seen in the past.

You're right, there's always been.

You know, one offs and and different people run as this or that.

This is going to be different and I can tell you from the support that I'm getting from the business community from just normal citizens.

I've made a tweet and it's true.

I have had military members that I haven't heard from in 20 years reaching out to me because they've seen the announcement they've seen the video and they're like.

Finally, somebody is saying what we all have been wishing, which is, why can't we return to decency?

Why can't we tell the truth?

Why can't we abide by the rules of an election when we have one?

So I, I think there's.

A real opportunity.

The time is right and I think that we're going to have success.

The rollout senator was pretty polished.

The video and the accompanying materials.

How long has this been under consideration?

When did you begin planning this?

I've been working on it and I've been trying to determine.

What my path is going to be with regard to the future, and as I've said, right up until the November elections.

My hope was that the Republican Party would return to its roots, but instead what happened after the election?

Completely pushed me over the edge and I think a lot of other people over the edge.

We saw leaders in our party.

Leading efforts to deny an election having stopped the steel rallies leaders in our party convincing people that their election had been stolen.

When it got to that point, I knew, at least for me, that there was no coming back.

And so I began the efforts.

Then what is it going to look like?

What are we going to do?

An is there?

Is there any way to salvage the Republican Party?

And I said I have so much respect for my uncle who's going to continue to work on the Republican Party for people like Representative Kinzinger in Illinois who's trying to return the Republican Party to its roots.

I hope they are successful, but for me I think I can have more success.

Outside the party.

So I began this working on this a month or two ago an I was determined when we rolled it out.

It would be rolled out well and it would be kredible because I'm not going to waste my time or effort on something that is futile or shoddy.

That Mr. Hudson said, in fact, the other day had was was again fairly critical of the preceding presidential administration, but he still, he says, also that he still believes that the Republican Party is is the best vehicle for the sort of policies that you're talking about.

Plainly, there's a family disagreement there.

Well, I think he and I have had this discussion and I think for him it probably is.

He can have a whole lot more influence over the Republican Party as the governor of the state and as somebody who spent literally his whole adult life.

Building this party then I can't so he respects my position and I certainly respect his.

It's about both of us doing.

We both have the same goal, which is to find a path forward or reasonable.

People who are who are more concerned about the Republican principles than personality and just complete deference to that.

Well, one final question Saturday.

We've got a few seconds remaining in last November or last years elections that both the primary and the general election.

Some of your more moderate colleagues in the General Assembly were rather roundly defeated by candidates far more conservative than they.

What does that suggest to you about the future of common ground?

Arkansas and the search for the center?

It suggests the need for common ground Arkansas.

I mean, if there's anything that points to the fact that we need something to counter this continued push to the extremes, you're exactly right.

It's what happened two years ago, and so again, there is a huge void for what we're doing, which is to try to go out and make the case to voters in a way that is successful that you don't have to always pander to the extremes.

So again, I see your point, and some may think this is a fool's errand, but I don't think so.

I think of anything.

And particularly, given the support that has been shown the last couple days, a lot of people are ready for something different.

Senator Jim Henry.

Thank you for being a guest.

Thank you for your time.

I think thanks for having me Steve stay warm will be right back.

Back we are and here they are Republican strategist Bill Vickery from the right Democratic consultant Michael Cook from the left.

Both though within sight of the center we trust guys.

Thanks, thanks for coming in Mr Hendron.

Sanada Hendron says that he he rather likes the centre or to be a bit closer to it than a lot of his colleagues.

He's leaving the party.

Bill Vickery will start with you.

First thoughts, well, you know when I when I heard about this, my first thought was I have known Jim Hendry for a very long time.

I have a great deal of respect for him.

I think he is a he's been a a strong leader in the Arkansas State Legislature both in the House of Representatives as well as in the state Senate.

He is a man of significant principle and if you know Jim Hendry and you know that he doesn't bend his principles for anything or anyone so.

It didn't surprise me.

I think he's been telegraphing this for awhile.

I think he's had you had a lot of unrest with what was going on in Washington with the National Republican Party, so not not surprised.

And again, if you know Jim, he's like I said, he's pretty principled guy and he he decided to make a stand and he did it in classic Hendron fashion.

Well Bill, he may be upset with some of the things that he sees nationally or in DC, but he's plainly not terribly happy with some of the things that are going on in Little Rock.

Where does this shift leave him in terms of he and his colleagues?

Well, that's a great point, Steve.

'cause my second thought was what happens to the Arkansas State Legislature now because you've got a Senate that has been fairly contentious throughout the legislative sessions.

Senator Henry was is a big figure in in the state Senate.

I don't know how this plays out.

There were some.

Senate colleagues of his who, through social media had communicated some things.

It's this makes a complicated state Senate even more complicated is sort of a Rubik's Cube on top of mathematics theorem on top of a Riddle on top of some sort of conundrum.

I mean, that's all you boil all that up, and that's what the Arkansas State Senate is right now.

Alot of smart, well meaning people but but it's complicated is a nice way to put it safe.

Yeah, well, there's an enigma wrapped up in there too.

I think.

Yeah, exactly.

Michael cook yeah, this was a a bit of a political earthquake.

This is the governor's nephew, his biggest ally in the state Senate.

Jim Hendron is of course was the former leader of the Republicans in the Senate, so the fact of him becoming independent is a big I think a big shock.

I would echo what Bill was saying.

We've seen some of this coming for awhile last year during the the 2020 elections.

Jim Hendred would be calling out Republicans.

For various Mail pieces that they would send out against Democratic candidates and pointing out there, frankly dishonesty and that caught him some heat from his colleagues on the right at the beginning of the session.

As we all recall, Senator Trent Garner kind of went after Jim Hendron over just frankly just some some petty issues.

That trend was trying to score political points.

I think in retribution for the fact that Senator 100 pointed out the.

The silliness of Republicans attack last time around, but it'll be curious to see what effect long term this has on the Arkansas political landscape.

But this is a major major announcement this week by Senator Hendron.

Well, of course, both sides, as we noted in our interview earlier with Mr Hen and then you guys know he's been sent Mr. Hendrix, but taking it from right and left, but particularly from the right, the GOP states share echoing what a great many Republicans have been saying of late, and that is that this new organization is purely simply strictly a vehicle for Mr Hendron.

Gubernatorial ambitions, assuming there are some and that that's widely assumed, and that that given his political posture at the moment, he he didn't have much chance in the GOP primary bill victory.

Let's start with you.

Yeah, I mean, look, I think the political reality here is the pathway for Senator Hendron It is a narrow one and it's you have to really thread the needle.

If you're him an.

I don't believe given the landscape of human tutorial candidates that there was a real pathway for success for him in the primary.

So now I think he's he's looking to put down the road a little bit further.

Try to get into a general where he maybe can appeal to some Democrats and centrist Democrats.

The old so called Arkansas Democrat that have that have moved over to the Republican Party in droves.

The reality is, though.

You does he split votes away from the Republican Party or the Democratic Party, or does he hurt both parties?

Even Lee Ann and then a kind of a 0 sum game like that.

The public can still win.

And when handling and occurs to me just now that I owe the Republican State chair, a woman, an apology.

Got the gender confused.

Riverside Michael cook.

Obviously, if that however narrow it might be for Mr. Hendron, he needs an awful lot of Democratic support.

Your party is kind of.

In advice there, because you need a nominee who will get at least 3% to stay on the ballot, right?

Correct, yeah, you know.

Right now there's people on the Democratic side we're talking about running for governor.

Nobody yet has emerged.

But frankly, if it's Jim Hendron and probably Sarah Sanders on the November ballot of 2022, I don't see very much, if any, Democrats voting for Senator Jim Hendron, I think what he does is he pulls votes away from Sarah Sanders.

Now, is that enough for a Democrat Camp Democratic candidate to slip on by to the governor's mansion?

That's that's a big lift.

But for the fact that Jim Hendry warning if he runs as an independent, that is still, we've never had an independent.

I don't believe that I can recall ever get elected to the governorship.

I just don't see it happening.

If he ultimately does, it runs for governor.

Yeah, I think the only situation kind of like this that comes to mind goes about 30 years back.

And that's when a certain Tommy Robinson Bill Vickery was in the primary and there was a great deal of.

Group of Democratic mischief.

Let's say in the primary the good old days.

The good old days, yeah, but of course now it'll be a general election, so we'll see we'll see.

Can I can I point out?

I think something that that is somewhat being lost in all of this, because you know, obviously Senator 100 switching, but the talk isn't just about stopping there.

If indeed some other folks come on board.

If you see a few former Republican leaders, a few former Democratic leaders.

If this is not just a a sort of a a vehicle for Senator Hendron to run for governor through but become something else, then I think you could be talking about something that might have legs beyond this election cycle.

And so I think we've got to keep an eye on that too.

Is there another shoe or two or three to drop from, say, former officetel?

Plainly, that's the senators.

Position on this bill.

Vickrey, Ann Michael Cook, but my question, I guess, is how much appetite is there now for this has the center shifted so far to the right as to be, well, pretty well to starboard.

Well, I would point out to you know, Jim Hendron's original statements when he announced that he was leaving the Republican Party.

I think Hendron raises some good points about how frankly radicalized the Republican Party has become both here in Arkansas and nationwide.

The vast majority of Republican voters say they don't believe that the 2020 election was free and fair.

They believe the big lie, as it were, that it wasn't a fair election.

And there's other examples of how far right.

The Republicans have have gone and I think that's another.

The biggest example of how much of a cult of personality that GOP has become is the fact that Sarah Sanders is probably going to become the nominee for governor in the state.

She scared out of the race of former congressman and current Lieutenant governor who had a statewide presence in automatically, according to polls.

I've been told about she is far away in the lead of the.

For the nomination, all for the simple fact she's not particularly qualified to be governor.

Whole claim to fame as she was press secretary to the president to President Trump.

But that's all you need in a cult of personality.

Party is be tide to Trump and all of a sudden it's a pathway to power.

Bill Vickery.

I think you're going to get the last word.

Yeah, I would just like to point out that these people get elected to office because the majority of the people that show up and vote send them to office and in terms of a cult of personality, you've got a lot of Arkansans.

Who the quote consider themselves Trump Republicans that have seen their institutions fail them over and over and over again in this reaction isn't to necessarily a personality.

It's been 2 failings in government that they've seen, so they want a shift, and so they see people like Sarah Sanders or like the Attorney General Leslie Rutledge or any of the other political leaders as vehicles to try to bring about that kind of change.

And so the Trump stamp is very deep and read in the state of Arkansas, and I think will have a big impact throughout this year and into the.

The primaries in all of 22 gentlemen.

Gotta leave it there because the Clock won't allow us to go any farther, but you'll be back soon.

Bill vickrey.

Michael cook.

Thanks very much for coming in as always and as always, we thank you for watching.

And we'll see you next week.

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