Major funding for Election 2020 for Arkansas PBS debates is provided by Civic Arkansas, a Winthrop Rockefeller Institute program.

Additional funding provided by the Arkansas State Chamber of Commerce from the campus of the University of Central Arkansas and the studios of Arkansas.

PBS It's election 2020 for Arkansas.

PBS Debates in 54321.

Hello, everyone, and welcome once again to Debate Week here on Arkansas PBS.

At this hour, the candidates for Congress on Arkansas's fourth Congressional district and they are in alphabetical order.

Risi Howard, the Democratic candidate, and Bruce Westerman, the republican party nominee and the incumbent questioning the candidates this hour, Byron Tate of Pine Bluff commercial, Josie Lenora of Little Rock Public Radio and Brandon Evans of 4029 News.

The rules for our debate.

Each nominee will have one minute to respond to questions.

The candidates will have 30 seconds for rebuttal if they choose to use it at the conclusion of questioning.

Each candidate will have one minute for a closing statement.

Now, as always, the order of candidate appearances was determined prior to the debate with a drawing that was observed by the nominees or their representatives.

And with that, it's time for our first question.

And it comes from Byron Tate.

And it goes first to Mr. Westerman.

As of March of this year, almost 400,000 Arkansans were enrolled in the health health coverage provided by President Obama's signature legislation, the Affordable Care Act.

To put that into perspective, that's one in five Arkansans who take part on Mr. Westerman official website.

There is still a press release from 2016 with the headline Westerman Votes to Gut Obamacare.

The question to Mr. Westerman.

Was that a mistake considering how popular and vital Obamacare has become in both Arkansas and across the country?

And secondly, would you like former President Trump has threatened to do work to repeal the Affordable Care Act under a Trump administration.

To Ms.. Howard.

Describe your thoughts on the Affordable Care Act.

Do you support it?

Why or why not?

Well, thank you, Byron, for that question.

And thank you to Arkansas PBS for holding this debate.

Steve, good to see you.

And thank you to our panelists.

Yes, I think the of the Affordable Care Act and particularly the Medicaid expansion, although it's been implemented in Arkansas, it's causing one of the highest cost to our state government because of the state match, which is only about 10% of whites paid for the Medicaid expansion.

Medicaid is one of the programs that's driving up the federal debt.

There's much better way to do health insurance in health care than depending on Medicaid from the federal government employer or providers don't like the payment that they get from the Medicaid expansion.

And I have proposed a bill called the Fair Care Act that doesn't repeal Obamacare, but it fixes Obamacare and it makes things like the exchanges work like they were supposed to work.

Thank you, sir.

We go now to Miss Howard.

You have one minute.

Yes, Mr. Tate.

Great question.

I am all for the Affordable Care Act.

There are over 15 million Americans on the Affordable Care Program that was implemented by former President Obama and Arkansas being a rural state.

We actually have here one out of every three people that are on Medicaid and without the Affordable Care Act, without Medicaid, these people would not be able to get insurance.

And in addition to that, Mr. Westerman is party wants to take $5.5 trillion and give it to the most wealthy in the country and the corporations while taking 1.5 trillion away from programs such as Social Security.

I'm all for Medicare.

I'm all for expanding Medicaid and for maintaining and not privatizing Social Security.

Thank you, Ms.. Now we're back to the congressman for 30 seconds.

Well, I appreciate my opponent being here today.

I'm not sure where she's getting her her facts about Medicare and Social Security, but both of them are on a pathway to insolvency.

And if we don't do something to fix them, we're going to reach a point in a few years where the only money available for Social Security and Medicare is what's being paid in by people working.

And that could mean as much as a 20 or 30% cut, because right now we're depleting the Social Security trust fund and the Medicare trust fund.

So I'm for fixing those programs so that they're here for the long run.

Ms.. Howard, you have another 30 seconds.

I spoke to a gentleman in Maine, and he gave an absolutely wonderful response for how we can maintain the Social Security trust fund.

And that is right now, if a person makes over $160,000, they don't have to pay the Social Security taxes if they make less than 160,000, they have to pay 6.2%.

And I will refer to him as John B. John B has a very good idea.

He said, Why not tax everyone 6.2%?

And I would be in favor of doing something like that.

Yeah.

We go now to Joseph Eleanor for the next question and it goes first to Ms.. Howard.

President Biden has been pushing for a cease fire in the Middle East and Vice President Kamala Harris has been asking for the same as violence increase in the Middle East.

Do you support escalating military action from Israel?

Well, first of all, we have to understand the culture of the Middle East.

I think that is one perspective that we're neglecting.

We need a cease fire.

Violence is never a solution.

But we as Americans, our country was founded on Christian and Judeo Christian principles.

And essentially we have been taught to forgive and to forgive 70 times seven.

And the Middle Eastern perspective is an eye for an eye on a two for two.

So we do need to understand the war from the Middle East and cultural perspective.

But I have no doubt that President Harris would be instrumental in bringing all parties to the table and coming up with a peaceful solution.

Mr. WESTERMAN One minute.

So when you look at Israel, Israel is an island of democracy in a sea of terrorism right now.

This is a proxy war from Iran perpetrated on Israel through Hamas in Gaza, through Hezbollah in Lebanon, and through the Houthis in the Red Sea.

Their battle cry is from the river to the sea, which what they mean is they want to kill every Jew from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea.

And these terrorist organizations understand one thing.

It's kill or be killed.

And we need to do everything we can to support our allies and Israel for the horrible attacks that happened there on October 7th.

I have met with people who are survivors, family members whose family members were raped, killed, kidnaped.

It's atrocious what these terrorist organizations have done.

And Iran has been empowered by the Biden-Harris administration relaxing sanctions on Iran.

They've had $65 billion of oil revenues that they've used to fund these proxy groups.

Since the Biden-Harris administration has been in power.

Back to Mr. Howard for 30 seconds.

Israel is one of our allies and we do support them.

I don't know where Congressman Westerman is getting his facts from now, you know, concerning what he has said about Vice President Harris.

But as I said, we need to reach a peaceful agreement.

Mr. Westerman, 30 seconds.

I can tell you where I'm getting my facts.

I'm getting my facts from the Biden Harris administration, relieving sanctions on Iran, allowing them to sell oil on the open market.

They've received $65 billion in profits, and that number is a little bit old.

It's more than that now.

There we go to Brandon Evans now for our next question.

And it goes first to Mr. Westerman.

So, Congressman Westerman, FEMA has been in the news a lot lately, not just because of hurricanes Milton and Helene, but because of funding.

And officials saying they simply do not have enough funding to address the natural disasters.

In fact, there could be an emergency session called to talk about that in Congress.

Do you support more funding for FEMA?

And with that, do you believe FEMA needs more oversight?

Great question.

First off, there's not going to be an emergency session called the speaker's already said today.

Biden and Harris came out and said there's plenty of money in the FEMA disaster relief fund to get through the election when Congress gets back after the election and it can be addressed again if there needs to be more money.

The continuing resolution that was passed before we left D.C. in September had 20 billion more dollars in there.

I will tell you that another program under FEMA and this has been it's been misrepresented.

There's a program under FEMA to relocate illegals.

FEMA has spent about $640 million on that program.

It is not out of the disaster relief fund, but FEMA is using their employees and resources to help with resettling immigrants.

I'm very familiar with this because they've given $59 million to the city of New York or the state of New York, and they've built the migrant shelter in Florida in that field, which is National Park Service land to Ms.. Howard.

For one runner.

The situation is such that there are a lot of false rumors circulating.

We need to do whatever we can to help those victims of Hurricane Helene and Milton.

As a matter of fact, the leading GOP leader in the state of Florida is now supporting Harris because he has said it is completely ridiculous to believe that the money is going from FEMA to illegal immigrants.

Mr. Westerman, 30 seconds.

I mean, it's a fact.

There's money in FEMA that's going to illegal immigrants.

But as I said, it's not coming out of the disaster relief fund.

And those two shouldn't be misinterpreted.

The money in the disaster relief fund is there for just what it says for helping people in disasters.

There's plenty of money there to take care of both hurricanes up until after November 5th.

And if there needs to be more money for disaster relief.

Congress has always been good to fund those programs.

Ms.. Howard, do you have another 30 if you choose?

Congress needs to fund the programs and help the people that are in distress.

Homeless without water.

And we don't need to politicize the issue.

We need to concentrate on disaster relief.

And it needs to be a bipartisan effort.

Ms.. Howard gets the next question first, and it comes from Mr. Tate.

Job growth is solid.

Unemployment is down.

Wages are up beyond the level of inflation, and inflation itself is now down to around 2%, which is the target for the Federal Reserve.

GDP is at a strong 3% or higher.

Consumer spending is up and small business growth is strong.

Nobel Prize winning economist Paul Krugman wrote in a column just this week, and I quote, It's hard to overstate just how good the recent economic numbers have been.

My question what's not to like about the Biden-Harris handling of the economy?

I don't think there's anything not to like about it.

And one other statistic that is true.

Under the Biden-Harris administrations, we have had the lowest unemployment rate amongst veterans in the history of this country.

One minute, Mr. Westerman.

Thank you for that question, Byron.

And the current unemployment numbers are or inflation numbers are lower.

But what you got to look at is the cumulative body of work.

And we've seen inflation over 20%, up to around 40% in some areas, especially food, which hits everybody not equally.

If you're on fixed or low income.

Inflated food prices are very hard to deal with.

We've seen inflated energy cost.

The inflation is down.

But remember, that's a year over year number.

It's not a cumulative number from since the Biden-Harris administration has been in place.

And I think the general public gets that when they go to the grocery store, they see what food cost.

They see that it's what it costs to go through the drive through to McDonald's or wherever the prices are higher.

And they've gotten higher under this administration.

And the first two years of this administration, when they had Democratic control in the House and the Senate and they put trillions of unnecessary dollars into the economy under the guise of inflation reduction and infrastructure and jobs.

Ms. Howard, you have another 30 seconds if you wish.

Well, speaking of infrastructure and jobs, Mr. Westerman voted against the infrastructure and jobs bill.

As far as the prices being high on the grocery store, I think we can't neglect the simple supply and demand economic rule.

After COVID 19, when the country began to pick up and people started taking advantage of goods and services, demand exceeded supply.

And anytime demand exceeds supply, prices will increase.

Mr. WESTERMAN Another 30, if you choose.

So the inflationary prices that are hitting food goes back to prices that are being incurred by farmers.

Their input prices are higher than they've ever been.

One of those things that is very high is nitrogen fertilizer, which is made from from natural gas.

We've seen huge increases in nitrogen fertilizer and that goes across the board in anything, whether you're growing crops or feeding animals grain.

Those prices get escalated all the way through the supply chain.

Lenora, now, first to Mr. Westerman.

Congressman, as the war continues in the Middle East, do you support voting to continue foreign aid to Israel and voting to continue foreign aid to Gaza for humanitarian purposes?

I think it's our responsibility to help our friends in Israel, and we've already sent them a lot of military equipment that's actually made in the fourth District of Arkansas down at Holland Industrial Park.

We have to continue supporting them.

Sending equipment over there is a lot better than sending our troops over there.

And I do continue to support that.

We also have always been a country very involved in humanitarian aid and getting food and supplies to people who need it, I think is an important thing as well.

But as I tell some of the reporters that try to get to little gotcha videos up in D.C., they come around in the halls and they say, are you for genocide against Gaza?

And I say, no, I'm not for genocide.

But every death, Palestinian and Israeli death, is the fault of Hamas for attacking Israel in the manner that they did.

And that's where I lay the blame.

Miss Howard, you have one minute.

I don't disagree with that.

We definitely need to reach a peace agreement in the Middle East and we don't need to block humanitarian aid.

Mr. Westermann, you have another 30 if you choose.

Well, again, we're in this war in Israel, in essence, on both sides of it, because when the sanctions were in place in Iran, they weren't able to sell their oil and produce income to fund these proxy terrorist organizations.

And now we're sending military supplies to Israel.

We've got to get to the root of the problem in our foreign policy, and that is Iran.

The same thing is happening in Ukraine because of bad policy.

The dismal withdrawal from Afghan asset.

We're in a war.

Russia has attacked Ukraine.

There's another 30.

I would disagree with that.

Russia attacked Ukraine because Ukraine wanted to be a part become a part of NATO's.

And we have to we have to support the Ukrainians because there are NATO countries that border on Ukraine, namely Hungary, Slovenia, Romania.

And as we know, a dictator is never satisfied to take over one country.

They want to take over the world.

So we have to try to stop that, because after going beyond those countries, that leaves Western Europe and then the United States.

Mr. Evans has the next question.

First to Mr. or Mrs. Howard.

So candidate Howard, when it comes to the presidential campaigns, there's been a lot of talk about misinformation or disinformation and the dangers that go along with it.

And while I'm not going to go through everything that has been said on either side, I want to focus on something that has continued to be said on the campaign trail by former President Trump that the 2020 election was stolen.

Agree or disagree?

And if you disagree, do you believe that that kind of rhetoric is dangerous?

I disagree.

For one, if the election was stolen, why would he need to call Georgia and ask if they could come up with 11,000 additional votes if he thought the election had been stolen and that he had actually won?

President Trump took an oath of office to follow and abide by the U.S. Constitution.

And on January 6th, he incited a riot.

All the while knowing that he would take or attempt to take presidential immunity while his followers were killed.

Some have been convicted and some have been imprisoned.

I think the American people learned a great lesson from that.

I don't think that anyone is unaware of the fact that United we stand, divided we fall.

And if there is domestic described, reality or chaos, that means we are subject to attack from our adversaries, namely North Korea, China and Russia.

So have confidence in the American people.

One minute, Mr. Westerman.

So our Constitution says that states are to carry out federal elections.

States certify their elections.

They sent those electors to Congress on vote if voted to certify those electors.

Joe Biden is the duly lawful president of the United States right now.

That's not to say there wasn't some voting anomalies across the country, but yes, Joe Biden is the president.

The state certify the election.

They sent the electors the electoral votes to D.C. and we certify them back to Miss Howard for 30 seconds.

Well, Mr. Westerman was in fear for his life on January 6th and then several days later refused to vote to impeach President Trump.

Mr. Westerman, 38, was not in fear for my life.

I don't know where you got that information, but the the impeachment of President Trump was it was a witch hunt.

Nancy Pelosi took one of the rooms in the Capitol here in the House Office building and made it specifically made for TV so that they could do their propaganda of fake trials and then impeachment.

So, no, I'm not going to vote or going to vote for an impeachment when the new president was coming in in 20 days, anywhere or however many days, it was less than a few weeks.

So, no, I didn't vote to impeach President Trump.

Any time, Miss Mr. Tate has the next question.

That goes first to Mr. Westerman.

Donald Trump has called January 6th, 2021, a beautiful day and calls those jailed over their participation in the Capitol riot, hostages and patriots.

Some 1000 people have been convicted in the January six attack.

Trump has said he would absolutely pardon these individuals, saying they were convicted by a, quote, very tough system.

Would you approve of those people being pardoned?

Well, first off, January 6th was not a proud day.

It wasn't a beautiful day.

I was in the Capitol the whole time.

What happened there was totally out of order.

Those people should have never entered the Capitol.

I was in the Capitol the whole time that the riots took place.

And, you know, kudos to the architect of the Capitol who came in and cleaned everything up so we could go back to the chamber and vote later.

So I'll categorically say it was not a a beautiful day.

I haven't followed those cases that closely.

I have heard of some people being prosecuted pretty hard.

I know that a lot of people who went into the Capitol.

It was still wrong, but I don't think they went in with with malice in mind.

But there were people that did go in with malice in mind, and they should be punished to.

Miss Howard, one minute I am not for extremism, whether it be Democratic or Republican.

And there are many people that categorize Marjorie Taylor GREENE as an extremist.

And Mr. Westerman has voted with her 91.5% of the time, more than any other congressman from the state of Arkansas.

Back to Mr. Wasserman, 30 seconds, or if you choose.

Well, that's that's an interesting statistic.

You could pick AOC or some other radical in the Democrat Party and come up with the same statistics.

I vote on the issues based on what issues is before me.

And I don't look around to see who else is voting for it.

Miss Howard, do you have another 30?

If you choose?

As I stated previously, I believe that Arkansans and the American public are smart enough to see through the smoke and mirrors.

And I am expecting a Democratic landslide because of January 6th.

And what happened that day, one of the worst days in American history.

I believe that the voters will go out on November the fifth and they will vote Democratic because they know it's a vote for freedom.

They'll vote Democratic because they know it's a vote for independence and they will vote Democratic because they know it's a vote for democracy.

Ms.. Lenore, on our question, first to Mr. or Mrs. Howard, back to Howard.

The United States Supreme Court is considering a case over whether to regulate ghost guns or homemade firearms.

The Arkansas legislature is considering bills to further weaken gun regulations.

Where do you stand on gun control and what changes would you make to the current law?

Well, Arkansas, first of all, let me say that I believe in the Second Amendment, which is the right to bear arms.

Arkansas is a hunting state.

And I think that what we need to do is concentrate more on mental health.

And we also need to concentrate more on gun safety.

Arkansas game and fish, They have hunting safety programs for young people.

I'd like to see something like that expanded.

But the American people have a right to bear arms.

I think we need to keep the assault weapons off the street.

And I really think we need to focus on mental health, which brings me to the fact that Congressman Westerman voted against the Mental Health Matters Act, and that act provides for mental health post COVID in schools for educators, families and students.

And he voted against that.

Congressman one Madam So I took an oath to uphold the Constitution of the United States.

The Second Amendment says it guarantees the right of the people to bear arms and says it shall not be infringed.

You know, the problem with gun violence is it's always a criminal that's performing gun violence.

And I think we focus too much on the guns and not enough on the criminals.

We need to have stricter penalties for people who commit gun violence.

And plain and simple criminals don't obey the law.

And it's always going to be a criminal that violates the law.

And attacking the gun is the wrong place to attack.

We've got to focus on the criminal and whether that's mental illness or whatever it is.

The emphasis needs to be on those breaking the law, not on the legal gun owners who are practicing their Second Amendment right.

Ms.. Howard, if you choose 30 seconds, it has been statistically proven that poverty has an impact on physical as well as mental health.

And so I think that what we need to do is focus on making life better, improving job opportunities for people in the state.

And that's where we need to put our focus.

Which is another reason why I don't understand why Congressman West would have voted against the Jobs and Infrastructure Act.

You have another 30 seconds, sir.

I think the first part of that reply was was very good.

We need to focus on jobs, getting people employed.

Increasing the labor participation rate in our country.

I voted against the Infrastructure and Jobs Act because it was not about infrastructure and jobs.

It was about the Green New Deal, just like the IRA was the Inflation Reduction Act, which did nothing to reduce inflation.

It actually increased inflation as well as the American Recovery Plan.

These are all unnecessary programs that were pushed by the Biden administration and the Democrat House and Senate.

A question now for Mr. Evans.

First to Mr. Westerman.

So, Congressman Westerman, Arkansas is one of the most pro-life states in the country when it comes to abortion.

Two part question.

Do you believe there should be exceptions in Arkansas for rape and incest?

And do you believe that doctors who illegally perform them should be prosecuted for the law in Arkansas, I believe does provide for exceptions when the life of the mother is at stake.

But when we talk about abortion, the thing we fail to look at a lot of times is if there is a life involved.

And when you look at the very founding document of our country, our Declaration of Independence, it says we hold these truths self-evident, that all men are created equal and are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights.

And the first one is life.

And in this whole abortion debate, we seem to forget about there's always life at stake.

So we should do everything we can to protect innocent life.

And the there was a survey out just in May that said that point 3% of abortions are happening because of the life of the mother or bodily.

Major bodily functions at risk and 0.4% due to rape and incest.

So that's point 7%.

That's seven out of a thousand.

And we want to focus on that small number instead of focusing on the 960 something out of the thousand that are performed just by choice.

Ms.. Howard, One minute.

Well, as a Roman Catholic, I am pro-life, but that's my personal opinion, and I don't think that other people need to accept my point of view.

And that's why we have separation between the state and religion.

I have always voted pro-choice, and I believe that it's a woman's decision and it needs to be made with her doctor.

There are women that are dying in the E.R.

They're being discharged home and they may be in need of an abortion.

Statistically, women that have an ectopic pregnancy and do not get the proper services cannot bear children in the future as a result of that.

One of the main things that concerns me, though, I don't think Mr. Westerman is concerned about women in the state of Arkansas in the fourth District at all because he voted against protecting Women's Health Act, the Protecting Women's Health Act, and he also voted against the Violence Against Women Act.

Mr. Westerman, another 30 seconds.

First off, and the topic pregnancy is not considered an abortion in a topic.

Pregnancy is not viable.

And even the health care profession doesn't consider that an abortion.

I know Planned Parenthood is trying to push to make that into the abortion debate, and that's that's just bad logic with them saying that it always comes back to life.

And I believe our job in as a country is to always protect life and life should always come first.

And even if it's in an emergency abortion to save the life of a mother, then we should do everything to try to save the life of that child.

Back to Ms.. Howard.

Do you have another 30?

As I said previously, I have always voted pro-choice, and if federal legislation were to come to my desk, that would be overturning the Dodd's decision.

I would be all for it.

I have talked to women in the fourth District, and they unanimously agree that a woman should have a right to make that choice herself.

And it should be a decision that's made between the woman and her doctor.

Byron Tate.

Now, first to Ms.. Howard.

So this is a continuation of the same question.

Former President Donald Trump has expressed pride in the part he played in killing Roe v Wade, mainly by his appointment of three conservative justices to the Supreme Court.

He is also taking credit for a patchwork of state level bans which are now so vague and threatening in some states that doctors are afraid to provide reproductive care to women who then suffer and sometimes die.

Vice President Harris says she wants to restore the protections of Roe v Wade at the national level.

Polling shows that 60% of the public says abortion should be legal in all or most cases.

My question should a woman have the right to make decisions about her own body or not?

And should the answer to that be determined on which state she lives in?

Well, I think a woman, just like a man, should have a right to determine what happens to her body.

All people should have that right.

As I've said previously, I would be all for any federal legislation that would, in effect, overturn Dobbs.

Congressman, so again, abortion is about the loss of an innocent life of an unborn child.

It's not about women's health care like the Democrat Party wants to message on this issue.

It's about do we protect life?

Do we stand up for those who don't have a voice?

And you go back to the declaration that says we have an Alabama right granted to us by God for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

I think we live in a society where people think their rights to liberty and pursuit of happiness can allow them to take away the right of a life for a child.

So I will always be on the side of life, unapologetically and unashamedly.

I don't care what the the national polls or the percentages show because I know that it's right to stand up for life in this country.

Ms.. Howard, you have another 30.

Well, that includes our life and we are still a country that believes in the death penalty.

So if we're going to protect all lives and protect all lives, in my opinion, simply because a person has some type of complication that it may or may not necessitate an abortion, but then again, it might.

I don't think we need to criminalize it because there are instances where it needs to save the life of the mother.

And back to the congressman.

Totally agree.

If it's to save the life of the mother and that's the last resort, then yes, that's that's fine.

But we also need to focus on the life of that that child and try to do everything to to see that child's life.

Now, the Democratic Party nationally, there, they don't put any limits on it.

They want abortion right up till birth.

And even the governor of Virginia and others have said former governor of Virginia and others have said, let's have the child and see if we want to keep it or not after birth.

That's atrocious and that's what happens when you start devaluing life.

There's no end to it.

And that's how you get into euthanasia and other forms of the disregard for life.

Got to call time there.

Thank you, sir.

Before we resume our questioning, we wanted to let you know, remind you that the candidates will have the opportunity to participate in a press conference immediately following this debate.

So you at home can scan the QR code, which is on your screen now with your mobile device and tune in so you can get your mobile phones ready.

You will see that QR code, by the way, periodically through the balance of our debate.

Another question, Jose Lenore, to goes first to Mr. Westerman.

Congressman, President Joe Biden is currently advocating for term limits and ethics codes for justices on the Supreme Court.

What do you think about that?

I think that's a violation of the Constitution.

He also wants to expand the Supreme Court.

He wants to make Puerto Rico and Washington, D.C. states.

I think all of these are things he's trying to do to push his agenda.

And I don't think there's any way Congress is going to to agree to that.

I know a Republican Congress won't agree to expanding the court, but I think that's in the Harris platform as well.

If he wants to expand the court, she wants to make Puerto Rico make Washington, D.C.

There's a lot better argument for Puerto Rico being a state than there is for Washington, D.C. That's atrocious to say Washington, D.C. should be a state.

Virginia got their section of Washington, D.C. back.

If if they want to be part of a state, then survey off a small area where the federal buildings are and give it back to Maryland.

But under no circumstances should Washington, D.C. ever be made a state north of the city should the Supreme Court be packed or given term limits.

This Howard one.

Well, that is supposed to be one of the advantages of our federal justices, since they don't have to run for election.

They are supposed to be neutral.

And it is it is not supposed to be a position that is politically motivated.

However, we have seen through some of the decisions that since the Republican have been in the majority on the court, that people are beginning to doubt the neutrality of the justices.

And so I think for that reason people are suggesting term limits as far as stacking or packing the court.

Once again, a gentleman that I spoke to in Mina had an excellent idea.

He said, we have 13 districts, so why can't we have 13 justices on the Supreme Court?

Mr. Westerman, I think people are talking about wanting to stack the court or new term limits now, because the the left isn't getting their way through the court, and that's how they've gotten so many laws passed in the past.

And now we have judges on the court who are textualist, who look at the original original text of the Constitution.

They interpret the law that way, and it's not always coming out in Republicans favor.

There was an interpretation just last week on the EPA or a ruling on the EPA that gave the the left a win, if you want to look at it that way.

Ms.. Howard, you have another half minute.

I have nothing further on that point.

We'll go to our next question.

Mr. Evans has the question and first time hour.

So as Arkansans, we are very proud of everything that the state has to offer.

But you don't often see Arkansas in the national spotlight.

Can you talk about the importance of promoting Arkansas nationally, including what you feel might be the natural state's best kept secret?

Okay.

I would have to say that would be lithium production.

That is $1,000,000,000,000 industry in Arkansas is right on the cusp of the lithium industry in the Delta, which is one of the poorest areas in the state.

They're looking at development of lithium in that area.

I have looked at some of the legislation that Congressman Westerman has proposed or fixed our force.

And in EPA.

And actually, there were more than 50 environmental groups that wrote a letter stating that it would have his legislation would have a negative impact on all states where there was lithium production.

In addition to that, in the Fix Our Forest Act, it would make it more difficult for people to complain about certain licenses.

And these corporations could come in and do a lot of damage.

So I think is the way that we do it.

We need to bring the manufacturers here and not only take the lithium out of the ground here in Arkansas, but make the batteries and the electric cars in Arkansas as well.

Congressman, one minute.

Look, I believe I represent the best district in the best state in the country.

And I know people from other states get tired of hearing me talk about Arkansas in the fourth District.

And I'm glad the fix our force that came up that passed in the last week of September before we had the break for the election, and it passed on a bipartisan basis.

There were 55 Democrats that voted for it.

Even former Speaker Pelosi and Steny Hoyer, who live in California, who know or Pelosi lives in California, knows the dangers of the forest fires.

And it was great bipartisan work.

I worked with Scott Peters, who's a Democrat from San Diego, to write this bill.

And our forests are one of the things that we can show off to the rest of the country because we know how to do that, right.

We also do outdoor recreation very well, and we passed a bill, a big bill that I've authored called the Explorer Act on Outdoor Recreation past unanimous out of the House, and I fully expect it to go through the Senate.

There's an hour and 30 seconds.

It did pass the House, but that's all it passed.

And as we know, it comes to passing legislation has to pass.

The Senate has to be signed by the president and hopefully President Harris wouldn't sign it because, as I said, over 50 environmental groups spoken out against it.

One of the things that he mentioned and perhaps the legislature in the legislature, they didn't have time to read the entire bill.

I have evaluated that bill.

And as a result of the lack of requirements that some of these corporations would have or would be missing, it would actually spark wildfires in the state, increase road density and increase sediment production.

And I water's got to go.

I've got to go to Mr. Westerman, 30 seconds, sir.

Well, I think he probably read the Center for Biological Diversity opinion on the bill, because there are some legitimate environmental groups that are concerned about the environment that sent letters of support for this bill.

Again, it was a bipartisan bill.

55 Democrats in the House voted for it.

Every Republican in the House voted for it.

And that's just something you see very often.

But it shows the amount of bipartisan work that went into it.

I mean, I'm the only forester in Congress.

I think I know a few things about forestry, and I've built that trust up on both sides of the aisle.

Mr. Tate with a question.

First to Mr. Westerman.

Former President Donald Trump declined to say during his debate with Vice President Harris if he wanted Ukraine to win its war against Russia.

His vice presidential running mate, J.D.

Vance, described what an end to the war could look like under a Trump administration.

As an opinion piece in the Hill publication put it.

Vance's explanation revealed an astonishing willingness to abandon Ukraine and award a huge geopolitical win to Russia and Putin, fulfilling the worst fears that many had sketched into Trump's evasions and, quote, Vice President Harris has vowed to defend Ukraine, saying that if Putin isn't defeated there, he won't stop.

My questions.

Do you think it's important for the U.S. to do whatever is necessary to make sure Ukraine wins?

And if so, would you want to see them join NAITO?

Goes for Mr. Westermann first.

Okay.

So I think we need to get Ukraine in the position where they can negotiate with Russia.

If you just look at the size of Russia, their military power, there's not a scenario where you.

COHEN Ukraine, quote, wins the war.

But I think Ukraine can get in a position where Russia will come to the table and you can end the war.

I believe that's what needs to happen.

And I think we need to support Ukraine with equipment, which, again, a lot of the built in Holland Industrial Park in Camden in the fourth District, the hammer system that's being sent over there.

We need to get Ukraine in the best position to negotiate an end to the war, because I don't think Putin's going to stop at Ukraine.

I think he's looking at those neighboring countries that are NATO's countries, and it's a whole different scenario.

If he invades a native country.

So we need to stop him in Ukraine and we need to supply the equipment so the Ukrainian people can fight against him and hopefully get in a position where he's ready to end the war.

One minute for Miss Howard.

I agree that we need to continue our support for Ukraine.

And I also wanted to add that we're not the only country that's donating money.

There are 32 other countries and the UK and Germany, and they have they've contributed billions of dollars.

But regarding Mr. Tate's comment about what President Trump said, he President Trump, former President Trump has not said whether he would suggest that the Ukrainians cede territory back to Russia to the congressman for another 30.

And again, we need to put Ukraine in the strongest position Putin had been, you know, in Crimea.

He's in a neighboring country of Georgia.

He pushes to see whether it's weakness.

He saw weakness when he saw the disastrous withdrawal out of Afghanistan.

It wasn't long before he started amassing troops on the border.

We need strong leadership in the White House to go to the table and force this into a resolution.

And I don't think the Biden-Harris administration has done that, nor do I think Vice President Harris will be able to do it.

Ms.. Our tone of 30 seconds.

Well, it's my opinion that if Donald Trump had been elected, we would not even be giving support to Ukraine.

And that's because of his relationship that so close with Vladimir Putin.

Okay.

We have another question now from Miss Lenore, and it goes first to miss our candidate, Howard.

President Donald Trump wants to raise tariffs.

His opponent, Vice President Kamala Harris, is calling this a Trump sales tax.

Would you, if you were in Congress, vote to increase tariffs?

I would not vote to increase tariffs.

And that is something that the Trump administration did.

They slapped tariffs on China.

And what China did was to slap us back with a 25% increase on American automobiles and a $75 billion increase on technology.

So I do not think the tariffs are the answer.

Since the fall of one of 2023, under the Biden administration and under the Inflation Reduction Act and ACT and Mr. Westerman did not vote for the Internal Revenue Service has collected over $1 billion in delinquent taxes from multimillionaires and the extremely wealthy.

And these are people that Mr. Westerman and his party have supported Big Pharma, the big corporations and the wealthy.

So there are other ways for us to improve our economy, aside from tariffs.

Congressman, one minute.

So when it comes to tariffs, I'm generally opposed to tariffs because I do end up being a tax on the American people.

But inflation's attacks on the American people.

What we need to be focused on more than tariffs are creating jobs here at home.

We've got a labor participation rate of around 62%.

For every 1%, we increase the labor participation rate that means $1,000,000,000,000 to the GDP.

And federal revenue is about 16 and a half percent of the GDP.

So if we could get our labor participation rate up much higher, we could grow our economy.

We wouldn't have to be as dependent on foreign countries.

But you also have to look at the human rights violations, the environmental violations and the health and safety standards that are being violated in a lot of these countries that we're importing from.

And China is the worst one.

They have slave labor.

They ignore environmental regulations.

And we're putting our American companies and American employees at a disadvantage competing against the federal government or a government overseas that doesn't play by the same rules.

Miss Howard, 30 seconds is interesting that Mr. West will say we need to create jobs.

Nevertheless, he voted against the jobs and Infrastructure Act.

I think we can increase jobs if we demand that the corporations that come in to extract the lithium, that they have to have the manufacturing plants in the state of Arkansas and that the lithium batteries have to be built in the state of Arkansas and the electric cars have to be built in the state of Arkansas.

This will provide jobs in one of the poorest areas of the state, the Delta in the 21st century and beyond.

Mr. Westerman.

So when the government creates jobs, it means a bigger burden on the taxpayer.

I'm for the private sector creating jobs, and I'm for the government working for the people, not against the people.

That's why I'm working on permitting reform to have permitting that works, but allows companies to actually do projects.

I'm not I don't want to be dependent on the government creating jobs.

And again, I voted against the Infrastructure and Jobs Act without anything but an Infrastructure and Jobs Act.

It was special handouts to two different groups.

And it wasn't about creating jobs.

It was about more government spending.

Mr. Evans has our next question goes first to Mr. Westerman.

Congressman Westerman, I want to talk about education, specifically religion.

In education, we see neighboring states, Louisiana, voting to incorporate the Ten Commandments displayed in schools in Oklahoma, now incorporating Bible studies in schools.

Is that something you would support in Arkansas or why not?

Well, I think the state legislature in Arkansas has already done some some work on that.

You know, the our country was founded based on freedom of religion, but it was also grounded in a lot of Judeo-Christian values.

And I think we're moving of the country as a whole is moving away from those values.

I'd rather the church be teaching those things, and I don't want the government to ever be the the church.

But I want the church to do the things that it's supposed to do.

And I don't want the government putting undue pressure or interfering with what the church is doing.

Miss Howard, one other.

Well, as a former educator in the state of Arkansas and I am endorsed by the NEA I would just like to say that we were always trained that if you allow Christian prayer, then you'll have to allow prayer of other religions as well.

And that goes back to what Congressman Westerman said, which I do agree with.

This is why we have separation of church and state.

So I think that, you know, having Christian prayer in schools, we were subject ourselves to litigation.

And not only that, but would it be fair and equitable to those individuals that were non-Christians and were members of other religions?

Congressman, you have another 30, if you'd like.

Well, there's always been prayer in schools.

Just ask a student before they take an exam.

There's no way you can stop prayer from being in school.

But we we seem to be in a society that's pushing back on everything that is surrounds our our founding and our values.

And it's like the government pushing back against religion more than supporting religion and supporting the church from not financially or any way like that.

But the church is one of the institutions that's made this country strong and the church needs to be stronger.

Ms. Howard It's interesting that Mr. Wesley would speak about our Founding Fathers because his his party's idea of Project 2025 would implement and usher in a dictatorship, and our country was not founded on dictatorship.

It would eliminate separation of powers and put all the power in the hands of the executive branch.

So, you know, it's interesting that he would address the founding fathers what they had in mind.

And it isn't called prayer now, but it is called a moment of silence.

One more question.

We will try to squeeze one in.

Mr. Taylor, as the question goes.

First to Miss Howard, whether Trump or Harris is elected, what could you do as a member of Congress to reach across the aisle to pass meaningful legislation and put to rest some of the partizan divide that stifles progress?

I think that that is an issue of individual personhood.

I'm an attorney and about 95% of my practice is negotiation.

You have to learn to get along with people and you have to come to an agreement.

I think that, you know, it's a matter of give and take.

And unfortunately, we don't we aren't seeing very much of that now.

All I can do is say that I would make myself a committee of one to be a part of the solution and not to be part of the problem.

Yeah.

Mr. Westerman, One minute.

So the U.S. House of Representative was designed to be a two party partizan system.

Majority rules in the House.

However, most of the bills that pass in the House are bipartisan bills.

They just don't get reported on like the partizan stuff gets reported on.

I'm already working towards the next Congress regarding this of who the president is or who's in control in the House or the Senate about working on legislation, on permitting reform, by working on legislation enforced by working on this outdoor recreation legislation, this bipartisan, bicameral legislation that should move in any Congress with any president as the in the White House.

We passed bipartisan legislation in the committee that I chair.

The Natural Resources Committee passes more bills in Congress than any other committee.

Those are bipartisan bills.

We pass the Complex and Free association, which is a huge bill that dealt with the our agreement with Palau, Micronesia and the Marshall Islands.

There's Howard, another 30 seconds.

It's important to pass legislation, but it's the type of legislation that you pass the budget that Mr. Westman, his party proposed, would take $1.5 trillion from Social Security and increase the age retirement from 65 to 69 and the Build back Better bill, which Mr. Westman voted against.

It would have provided money for free daycare for three and four year olds.

Nevertheless, they have allowed the corporations to get away with not paying over 5.5 trillion in taxes.

So it's all in how you apportion it.

And as long as everything is fair and everybody's paying their fair share, which to date has not happened.

Congressman, you have another 30 seconds.

So, you know, if corporations are getting away without paying taxes.

I wish my opponent would go talk to the corporations in Arkansas and and explain to them how they're cheating the federal government.

The Tax Cut and Jobs Act that we did benefited low and they cut middle income Arkansans and allow most people to file the simplified tax form.

It did not create the cost to the government that had was portrayed by the Democratic Party.

Actually, the income was higher after the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act than it's ever been.

If people haven't noticed, we have a $2 trillion, four year deficit that's growing.

There's got to be some cuts somewhere.

And with that, the time for question and in our broadcast has expired again, as determined by the toss of a coin prior to the debate.

Time for closing arguments now.

Mr. Westerman, you have one minute, sir.

Well, thank you, Steve.

And again, thank you to Arkansas PBS for doing these debates.

I think it's important that we have this forum to discuss what we're for and what we're against.

And to Mark.

Mr. Howard, thank you for coming and doing this.

But to the people of the fourth District of Arkansas, it's an honor and a privilege to get to represent you in Congress.

We have a bright future ahead.

Arkansas is a natural resources state with our agriculture, with our forestry, with the opportunity to grow lithium.

And in southern Arkansas, I think the future ahead is bright.

I'm working in a bipartisan manner to move those things forward that are going to make the fourth District all that it can be.

It's an honor to serve you.

I appreciate the support in the past, and I ask for your vote as we go into the election on November 5th.

Miss Howard, one minute to close.

I'm running for the U.S. House of Representatives because I am dissatisfied.

I'm dissatisfied with the way that Congressman Westerman has represented us as a state.

We're a very poor and rural state.

We have a poverty level of 16.5%.

And even during the Great Depression, the national poverty average was 15%.

So that is higher than the poverty level during the Great Depression by approximately 1.5%.

All I can say is that Mr. Westerman has voted against the Violence Against Women Act.

He voted against the Protecting Older Workers from Discrimination Act.

He voted against the John Lewis voters rights Act amendment.

He voted against protecting women's health.

He voted against build back better.

He voted against mental health matters.

He voted against the whistleblower protection Act.

If you send me to Congress, it'll be a vote for the people, the middle and the lower income wage earners, which make up the majority of the population here in the state of Arkansas.

With that, our debate concludes.

We would like to remind you that you can watch this and all of the Arkansas PBS debates on demand at the Arkansas PBS YouTube channel on the PBS video app and on our website.

The candidates.

Another reminder, we have been invited to participate in individual press conferences immediately following the broadcast so you can continue watching our live stream at my r pbs.org slash elections or by scanning the QR code.

There it is again on your screen to view the press conferences.

Our thanks again to the candidates for participating in our debate and our panelists for providing the questions.

It's a reminder now that Tuesday, November, what is it, the fifth?

I think it's the Election Day.

So make your voice heard.

Thanks again for watching.

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Arkansas PBS debates is provided by Civic Arkansas a Winthrop Rockefeller Institute program.

Additional funding provided by the Arkansas State Chamber of Commerce