EBay.

Hedjet Hello I'm doctor Malcolm Glover and this is healing the divide race relations in Arkansas.

This program is a first step in support of efforts to provide space for meaningful conversations about racial injustice and persistent inequality in our communities.

The road to reform and reconciliation may be long, but the journey must begin now more than ever before.

The need for this discussion is of the utmost importance.

By now many Americans Anne arkansans know the name George Floyd during his arrest.

He complied with the demands of law enforcement officials but was still pinned down to the ground by 4 police officers.

One officer thrust his knee into Floyd's neck for nearly nine minutes.

After stating the words, I can't breathe over and over again with no reprieve.

Floyd died.

His death has spurred worldwide protests and sparked, or some may even say, reignited a global movement for police accountability and racial equality.

The story of Floyd's tragedy is just one chapter in American anthology that has far too often been marred by the killings of unarmed black men and women by police officers or vigilantes.

In order to heal the divides that exist in our communities and improve race relations, we must be honest about how our nation's history shapes the present and influences the future.

Joining me for the discussion are doctors civil Jordan Hampton, former president of the Winthrop Rockefeller Foundation.

Doctor Christina stand for a dispute resolution scholar.

Sheriff Lafayette Woods, junior of Jefferson County.

Tamica Edwards, JD, executive director of the Social Justice Institute at Philander Smith College.

An Epiphany, Big Piph Morrow, hip hop artist and community builder.

Also joining us via Skype is governor ASA Hutchinson.

We also want you to be a part of the conversation.

Please email your questions to pee affairs at my Arkansas pbs.org facebook.com/arkansas PBS or on Twitter hashtag AR PBS.

Hello Governor Hutchinson, thank you for joining us.

We appreciate it.

Thank you for leading.

This conversation is so important and your panelists are outstanding.

That will be a discussing it further.

We appreciate you being a part of this conversation.

I'm wondering governor how did you feel?

When you first saw footage of that tragic incident in Minneapolis that led to the death of George Floyd.

Well, fart felt sorrow, uh, I fell aggravation, uh, an and also why is this happening again?

Becausw anybody who's fall the news the last decade sees that this has happened repeatedly and you'd think that with enhanced training it wouldn't be happening again.

And then you makes you understand that there are some institutional problems that we have to confront as well as some heart issues.

So it broke my heart.

It just like it broke others across America.

So I can only imagine the hurt among the African American community that I've heard time and time again in terms of outrage, and we fully have to understand that and learn to understand it even better.

Governor's, you know there have been rallies and protests and big cities and small towns all across Arkansas.

You had an opportunity to talk with some of the protesters.

I'm wondering what, if anything, have you learned from those conversations and have they changed your mind on any of your policies moving forward?

Well, there's much we actually agree upon, but the first thing that they expresses, our outrage and her frustration and also what's impressive, is the usefulness of the movement.

This is a new generation of young people that demand change, and that's exactly the words that they use.

And so I sit there and listen to him and and have great respect for how they've stepped out and shown leadership and said, we've got to do something different and in terms of the agreement, side is.

Uh, I recognize that you have to follow this passion up with action and uh, as well as listing and the action we set forth with with a task force to review the state of law enforcement in Arkansas.

How we can do it better bring accountability, train better and make sure he root out those that have that anti racial heart and as against equality and we've got to do better there and hope that's action that we can accomplish as you look at the lay of the land governor.

Anything off the top of your head that you think concretely should happen right now?

I know the task force will be doing its work, but what are some concrete actions?

Whether it's relating to policing or socioeconomic issues that negatively impact poor communities, what do you think the legislature in your administration should be looking at moving forward?

Well, an answer.

It's a good point.

You know the first thing we look at is the policing becausr.

That's what led to the death of George Floyd, and that's what we want to do better at.

But clearly the young people and the protest communicate that it's more than simply law enforcement.

It's also equity.

In education, it is economic equity as well, and we've got to look at all of those areas.

And in terms of concrete steps that you can take.

Right now I think the first opportunity is the police action, because that's what's on the hearts and minds of people.

After what we saw in Minneapolis and when I say that it is coming out with some recommendations, I think that we can reach agreement in that task forces move quickly.

I think there's other things that can be done.

Just gonna take a legislative session and a lot more thought and listening in order to get some of those items to.

Governor Hutchinson, thank you so much for your time.

We appreciate it.

Thank you good to be with you.

Let's bring things back to our powerhouse panel.

I'm wondering just based off of some of what you heard from the governor.

What do you think needs to happen?

We know that there's going to be this task force, but one of the things we've talked about over and over again is that young people, Millennials, Generation's ears want action.

So what needs to happen right here in Arkansas?

I would just echo some of the things that governor say it and he was spot on.

Some things need to be looked at in terms of the task force and where we go from this point forward.

One of the things I see immediate need for his reviewing policies, current policies on the books to make sure that we have good policies and policies that may be questionable or maybe antiquated.

Not good.

Get rid of possible placement policies, but more than just creating those policies implemented, making sure that we are keeping people accountable.

For the actions, if they violate those policies, one of the things that were tasked in charge with his constitutional officers and more importantly enforcement officials, is the duty to protect individuals in.

Him in Annapolis.

Obviously we feel shorter than I say we because when individual see what happened in Annapolis, they don't just see Minneapolis Police Department, they see a police.

They say law enforcement officials and were judge accordingly.

And so we have to look at that sort of thing.

Should look at thank you Sheriff Woods.

I'm wondering if you can talk to us so much of your work not only in terms of the hip-hop community, but in the arts community you're working with.

A lot of these young activists who are vocal about the problems that this nation faces, and it's a global movement in many ways.

What are you noticing in terms of what needs to happen right now?

What some of those young activists are saying, right?

So I see it.

Kind of this blend of Education and action figure out where your role is right?

And the two things kind of play with each other.

So education being effect of this is.

How to not make this moment just a moment right?

And in that you have to understand this is something that is been existing far, far beyond this moment far far before this moment, and so it's just a lot of understanding education that comes with that.

And a lot of that comes still just action, right?

So understanding you might be on the forefront of policy or you might be overwhelmed at the moment.

But what cannot happen is in action.

So it's even if taking small steps are being an advocate here, even if your first small step is being a protester or someone else is small, step is like.

OK, I can do something in my community with my skills.

Is combining that with the education building from there so it's not letting the moment get overwhelming or fizzle out, but more so, understanding that to make the long haul, it's the steps you're taking right now in the education and action and building a pond at this cumulative source and also looking for the relative leaders in each field, right?

So it's not.

It may be in police reform or maybe in education and maybe in economic development, but understanding.

OK, these are kind of the people who are on the forefront of this.

That's why I turn to for this this how could play a role in this.

This is on the forefront of this.

I may want to play Motorola new, so it's just kind of understanding is not going to be a one size fits all situation.

It ain't gonna be a quick fix is kind of figured out.

This is why I am.

This is our complaint is how can grow to make this move in this change.

Thank you for sharing that.

I know that the murder of George Floyd rocked the collective consciousness of so many Americans, but this is not an isolated incident.

And before the show started, we kind of talked about the history that led us to this point and you were sharing doctor Jordan Hampton.

You were sharing part of your story.

As part of the another chapter in this anthology tell us more about that part of your story as it relates to some of these issues.

I'm really, really pleased to speak because I am so moved by the young people who have mobilized and become a catalyst for something as we've never seen before.

A force that I think will bring change as we've never seen before.

And I hope that the young people will be able to look back and to understand that those of us who who were involved in a different way in a different time with school desegregation, say here in Little Rock as I was in 1959 through 1962, will come to understand that there is a continuum.

It's all connected.

We are all connected and there is no way that a person of my age and experience can do anymore than to be in.

All of what has happened, but also.

I think that all of us have been involved in the past.

Want to be connected to the future and to provide respectful, support loving support.

That child is something you are asked me said you say kind of like rock the collective consciousness and have a little push back on that 'cause I don't think it rocked like the collective consciousness.

Iraq rocked a particular subset.

So like when I saw the George Ford Motor murder happened, it felt like familiarity.

Now the familiarity of desensitisation.

But in one like I've seen this many times before, and the emotions that came with like nothing rock my consciousness I think was kind of different that propelled this moment is we're in for lack of better where it was like a perfect storm.

So you have people have been four months of being quarantined and having that frustration you have a group of people.

Now is also in a monoculture everybody into the same thing.

Unemployment in new rail out of frustration with the leadership in the government.

And then you had this another group who rock their collective conscious 'cause.

That's the first time they're paying attention to it.

Whereas in most of Black America we've been screaming it like it's nothing new like we were saying, nothing new that haven't been before, and you have all those things that culminate and then it becomes more meant something different.

But yeah, it's so I saw it as a moment, but it wasn't in terms of like in Mark Music Music.

I deal with, it wasn't like, Oh wow, how this happened.

This moment so crazy it was like oh, here we are again going to always push it just so happen those other things built on top of it.

I believe allowing us more metal understand no, go ahead and for a person my age I was at the University of Chicago in 1968 and lived in a community with friends who knew the young men who are Black Panthers who were murdered solve the Democratic convention and the assassination so that for me it was yet again.

Oh my goodness, you know here we are.

You know, at this moment of history that we hope that we would never see even more intense way.

Again doctors and I going to your point of a perfect storm.

I think that SWAT entered into the consciousness of people.

Well, white people who may be in the past.

It's like, OK, I see it.

But I for some reason this was horrifying in a way that was a perfect storm.

An I think the way that you put that.

Is is exactly right in my line of work.

It's called an exigency.

It's that exigency.

It's that moment, and then you go.

Oh my God, I've got to do something.

This is horrific.

That's a human being that I see a human being being murdered.

And that is a perfect storm.

Director Edwards.

I wanted to come to you because you've worked in so many different sectors.

You have a legal background.

You've worked in politics.

Now you're working a lot with young activists on issues of social justice.

But you're also a mother.

You know you may have even had to have the conversation with your children.

That conversation that we often talk about.

What black parents have to talk to their kids about in terms of interaction with the police.

Talk to us about everything that you've had to work on and deal with in recent weeks and months.

That, but just as part of everything that you do.

So, I think it's very overwhelming point because one I have to stay.

Thoughtful and focused and intellectual about what to say at these moments in my professional space.

But I also look at my children and wonder if my time with them is limited, right?

So can I just hold them in a bubble so that they don't grow up and have to deal with it?

Because I don't know how I would be able to deal with not being with them, and so I'm thoughtful at that point.

I've taken them to protests.

Also have talked with them about what it means to be black and you know what it means to not go too far ahead of us when we're walking around.

You know, in a neighborhood or in a store or not, to talk too loud or not to do certain kinds of things.

And am I suppressing their liberation because of the color of their skin?

And also because I want to keep them safe so there have been so many emotions that I've had to think about.

Even in having to write about this as a professional and folks seeing the brutal murders and the proximity because it's not only just George Floyd, it's also a MoD barbarian.

It's also Brianna Taylor, and it's also Bradley Blackshire, and it's also an also an also, and that is exhausting.

Would you want to make one more quick promised?

You know, people often acts what's different about George flows death.

What's different about it?

'cause we bandwidth for?

We've been here multiple times before and from alarm for Spectre was different for me.

Is that within that moment?

It was very if this makes sense intimate.

Close and personal.

It wasn't a use of force in somebody died.

It was slow, methodical, deliberate.

In the words that came out of his mouth, or worse, now are trending and it turned into a movement I can't breathe.

That was different.

That's what's different.

Let's broaden our conversation with some additional voices from the community.

Here's Jimmy Warren, founder and host of our can talk.

This is Jimmy Warren here with a group of a steam panelists who have been active on the ground in the protests and also have been community leaders.

I had missed Laura Brunson had been active in the Little Rock protest with a group called carbon and carbon stands for a community activist rebuilding our nation.

We had Mr Kendrell Collins.

He is a federal public defender, was also recently appointed to governor ASA Hutchinson Police Reform Task Force and then we have the chief from the city of Crossett, Mr JW cruise.

Thank you so much for coming on.

Well Mr Cruz Uhm you are the law in uh enforcement?

Uh expert, that is here on the panel so thank you so much for joining.

I know that cross it has had a couple of protests and a couple of kind of unity marches and things.

However those things been going there on the ground.

The protest you know process a small town.

You know population roughly 5000 we had a protest where some people exercise their right to protest.

Very peacefully, no issues whatsoever.

Held signs, you know.

Even think they said a curse word out there, you know they were very peaceful about everything.

No roadblocking, so definitely no issues here and I had people calling ask you know about protest and inform them that.

That will not interfere with in any way.

Meaning that you know our old applies to every part of the Constitution applies to everyone, and so you know, I totally would not interfere with what we call the fellowship.

Visual invited the entire community.

I think we had a good turn out considering people are scared to come out to the Cove in.

I would say we had 100 to 150 people.

We had speakers.

From the area, come out and talk and it was just good fellowship and and I think there are moving the right direction.

Kind of bring the community together.

Also awesome Laura.

Thank you again for coming out.

I know that you have been active in the protest that have taken place in downtown Little Rock and specifically around the Arkansas State Capital.

Can you kind of tell what that atmosphere is been like?

It's been amazing and I just truly been humbled with how many people have come out.

How many people have just rallied and shown such support, brought supplies.

Everyone has just been so giving so loving and it's just really been an amazing experience.

Yeah yeah, awesome, awesome kendrell.

I know that we've been in rooms with the governor of missed the protest that have been going on now.

Kind of.

What are your thoughts around his response to the protests so far?

Well, I'll tell you where we met with the governor last Friday.

Uh, he did give us his word that he would create a task force to address the issues that we presented him and I have a great deal of respect for a leader who says something and then follow through with it.

Now, of course, uh, you know we, we would have liked to have more people in the room that were there on Friday, but I think that the that the group that he's put together, his reflective of our collective voices, you got policy leaders.

You got people on the front on the front lines protesting and organizing.

Legal minds, uh, so I I am, um, hopeful about what is to come in.

I believe the voices that are on the committee are gonna be intent on action and that's that's where we're coming from.

Yeah yeah, absolutely um.

Chief cruise.

You've been in the local media just for your involvement in the community and you're handling around race relations.

How was that mean going and why do you think that people have been reaching out to you?

Is kind of a go to guy around that?

Well, as far as to why they they reached out, there are many social injustices, but one of reoccuring theme that we always here is is this blue wall of silence is and that is where law enforcement agencies or even individual officers refused to call out other agencies or officers.

And when the conduct you know doesn't.

When is terrible condo winning something they do something wrong?

We're afraid as a community or in history have been afraid it as a community to come out and condemn those officers.

There was no way the situation Minneapolis could have been justified.

I believe anyone who watched video has agreed with that and so someone had to start, you know, saying hey, we're not going to have this wall and that's what I told the community at the fellowship, so I can't promise you.

There's nothing like this will ever happen again, but what I can promise you is that if it does, the Chrysler Police Department will stand beside you in in fight against that injustice.

And an I meant that.

And I think that's I garnish.

You know, I had a lot of people calling thank me and I'm I'm sure you where I've had some to ask me.

Why would you know?

Step off in a Hornets nest.

I said, well, it's just the right thing to do, you know?

Well, it's uh, the officer acted terribly and.

You know it's not like having you know it.

It's not just a bad Apple.

We have bad officers around the country that it's our responsibility as law enforcement leaders to root those officers out and get them out of the community.

Otherwise they do represent us because we refuse to call now.

It is great, that's great.

Mr Collins, you um as being an attorney, you're heavily involved in the criminal justice system and before the meeting with the governor, you kind of did a poll on social media and ask people what issues would they like to see your drift.

Can you give us maybe like a top three of some of those issues?

Yeah, if you don't mind, I'll give it a top 4IN light of what the chief just mentioned.

I really appreciate those comments, something that the city of Little Rock did was implement a duty to intervene.

I think it's very important that officers are the good offices, especially in there are there are a lot that they feel empowered to speak up when they see things that are wrong and creating a duty to do that in that accountability.

I think that's a a big policy issue that didn't make the list, but it's very important.

One of the big things that.

It was at the top was making sure that we implement some sort of statewide database that keeps track of all complaints.

Kredible compliance reports made against police officers, and you know the result of those investigations that needs to be public.

It needs to be transparent for the people to see it.

'cause that builds confidence in the community.

And another thing was creating a standardized statewide user 4th policy.

That's that's very important, because we want to make sure that.

If I'm going through process or if I'm going to my hometown, Osceola, or Little Rock that there's a stack and expected the citizen to get the same treatment in to make sure that the operator calling the same policy when it comes to you for tours and when it comes to eliminate ING things like to pose like that, those are things that shouldn't exist in terms of law enforcement.

Yeah, yeah.

So those are two big ones.

Those are two big ones that we mentioned.

Of course you have other things like making sure that we push for hate crime bill.

Uh, that we have training for officers on implicit bias and cultural training.

Though some people.

Yeah, awesome, awesome and Laura, we've talked about just the diversity, not just race and ethnic group, but lifestyle and age that has been present at the Capitol protest.

And can you just talk about how it's been just a melting pot out there?

Absolutely, so I'm, you know, socio socioeconomic status, gender, race, age, religion.

None of those have have been an interference with us all coming together and being able to be there for in Unison.

For one 'cause I again I just fit in all of how many people have joined together and come together.

Together cumulative update for for this amazing cause and just been so supportive of one another and I have seen.

You know, people gather and and you know you would think that they had been best friends for 20 years and I just met each other the day before.

And, uh, it's just.

It's truly been amazing experience, awesome, awesome and I know we're running up against the Clock here, but I had one question that I kind of wanted to pitch to all of you, and it's in the form of police training and I wanted to stop start up front with the chief chief.

You told me that you guys were working with some standards and also trying to implement.

Mandatory training in your Police Department.

Can you share that information?

You're kind of breaking up every tone back.

The cultural integration training, yes, Sir.

OK, so this was actually brought to me by a couple of employees when we were talking and one of the investigator at the other is my lead dispatcher and.

Both are African American females and they came to me in a trusted me with.

Concerns that that they have or that they had lived through, and one of them has a grown son, sons made and she said, you know, I still have to worry about you.

Know I still call and check on hey, did you make it home?

Hey, you know running any problems stuff that I've never heard you know a white mother worry about.

And the other investigator who force you know she worked, patrol with us for awhile before she made it into Seattle, and so she's answered a fair amount of car causing them.

She phones, it should get singing one thing she brought.

Why was the way that a white police officer gave me and I think it's because she was an African American female.

She would speak with your personal experience.

Dealing with African American females.

And even though the police officer didn't intentionally do anything wrong, figured to understand and respect someone else's culture.

Uh offends people, even if it's accidentally in her advice was or her example was.

She said, you know, African American females when they're upset, she said were more expressive than white males in a white cop can view that as aggressive behavior or as disorderly conduct when that's not the way that the female.

Teaching there's no criminal intent, so to speak in that manner, so that's when you know we kind of come up with this idea of cultural integration.

You know, perhaps part of the problem is we simply haven't set down an learned about it, cause that that to me when she told me that I said, You know, I, I didn't know that, you know, I've never considered that.

And so part of this program is to bring people in who have lived through those experiences with police officers and had a bad experience.

And listen to their side and listen to their perception and get the police officers to open up and say, OK, I understand now and I can correct the way that I act and better serve the community.

Absolutely, absolutely thank you all so much for joining us today.

I know that the people will greatly appreciate the message.

Thank you all individually for the work that you're doing.

Any community just to inspire others and get the word out with greatly appreciate you setting time aside to come with us today and can't wait as we move forward here in the state of Arkansas to see what great things and ideas you guys bring to the table.

Back to our powerhouse panel.

Let's have some brutal honesty.

Because I thought it was very, very important what director Edward said before this piece.

Bringing up the name of Brianna Taylor.

Black woman 26 year old, 26 years old and emergency medical professional killed by Louisville Metro police who used a no knock warrant.

Turns out that they were at the wrong house and the people that they were looking for were already in police custody.

And I think.

When we get into this discussion about training, yes, I mean, training is always helpful.

But racism?

Exists and no matter how much training that you give anyone students law enforcement officers anyone if they see individuals as less then then they will act.

In certain kinds of ways, when interacting with those folks.

So let's talk about it.

When we talk about training.

What were some of your thoughts on what just took place in that video?

Are we emphasizing the wrong thing when it comes to correcting some of these issues?

I'm ugly, so training is good.

Obviously trained as good an.

I've gone to plug the training so as my officers and others alike across this state, and I'm not.

Shy away from more trying additional training object trainers.

Good enhancing training as we evolve as a profession as a human species.

I mean all of the above but one of the things that we can't shy away from it is disproportionately has been argued that.

African American minorities have been.

Under represented in all levels of the justice system from the street level from arrest from stop and search.

Even to the point of incarceration.

But Lastly, but showing at least and more significant for this topic is in custody deaths.

And so when you look at those things, one of the things I say that we should also focus on is race relations.

We have failed on that as a law enforcement profession.

We had to be remain cognizant of race relations when we recruit.

Intertwining net and there have been many agencies across this state and abroad who have implemented different recruitment initiatives to recruit minorities, especially looking at where you going to be positioned where you going to beat rolling, we're going to be interacting with community, but we have not gone back and done is in the recruitment process is look for fermentory features.

Things that would have been signs that that is instilled in that person.

Because like you said.

You give all the training world, but what is any guesses me come out some point and so we had to look at it from a crewman standpoint.

Things that are indicators that maybe when you be looking closer at to determine whether not we recruiting good people that are going to be out there, ethical and professional and not violate somebody's constitutional rights because one of the arguments that's often brought up on line is that police officers don't have to be trained to treat white citizens with dignity and respect or as human beings.

Yeah?

I mean, I think that goes to the idea of implicit bias.

When I was doing teacher training at the University of Colorado, it was on gender bias, but, uh, we, we were videotaped as we, you know, taught our course and then they showed us our videotape back and the person who was my trainer said.

Do you see what you're doing?

And I'm like no, I can't see well what are you talking about?

What am I doing an and she said to Maine?

You're looking only at the right side of the room and I and she was right.

I was and she said.

Did you know that who's sitting on the right were mostly men and I had no idea I was doing that.

Absolutely none, and so the onus gets.

It was on me.

It's not, you know.

Well, women act like this an you need to do this because women act like this.

It was about me and my bias.

It wasn't.

About trying to pigeonhole other people and then then I have to, you know, it was me.

I'm the one who had to change and to me that's that's deeper.

Kind of training and I've seen it when I worked in terms of diabetes.

It's generally about changing individual behavior.

No, you gotta change the community.

We're talking about food deserts here.

We're talking about communities.

They don't have access to good food.

You can't tell someone you need to.

Lower your A1C and eat lots of vegetables and fruit if they don't have access to the vegetables and fruit.

And so again, to me.

I know it's I've gotten kind of off topic here, but it's analogous to Maine, and that's the wrong kind of training.

Then.

OK, I'm sorry.

The word matter really jumps out at me, and all of this because the way that links back in my lifetime is that I spent three years from 1959 to 1962, and Little Rock Central High School in the most important thing that I learned there was, I didn't matter, and the way in which I learned that is no one spoke to me for three years.

And if if that doesn't send a message to us about the heart being very much a part of what?

Enables a person to step up and to respect and to acknowledge.

Another person I think we have to we cannot.

We cannot train for an we cannot legislate for the things of the heart that help you to understand that that person who is different matters.

You know a big deal with the black lives matter movement is really this Clarion call for equal justice under the law.

But that in so many different forms and so as we talk about what really matters, let's get into that a little bit more.

How important it is to not only listen to these voices.

But continue to move forward and act on some of what's being talked about.

We're going to add in something to things, getting mine, and one was based off of to make what he was saying.

Actually before the session and I was last year to expand on repeat it, but he was talking about how policy can create conditioning, right?

'cause I don't think spoken enough about like policy.

Would you use a way better than not gay?

In in the policy world for quite some time, and So what I've noticed is we implement policies because we want people to act a certain way.

We want a certain type of outcome and so when we look at the history of our country and think about those public policies that were implemented, they were implemented for us to not to to segregate.

They were implemented for us to have a certain frame of mind when we're dealing with individuals, and because we have not focused on public policies that.

Promote social justice.

Oftentimes they have created these differences, right?

And so now we're kind of concerned.

Like how did this happen?

Will it happen with redlining, right?

You know, literally taking a red line and saying where you can and cannot live.

That gets into the hearts and minds of people.

Any dictate how you should be, how you should treat someone else on when you see someone in their treated inhumanely.

It is primarily because the policies that we have implemented conditioned.

That type of mentality.

So when you mentioned earlier, you would go in and that person just doesn't even seem as though we should treat them the same way.

Or why shouldn't we have the same type of training and how you treat white people in the same way that you treat black people.

We have had training and that training comes through the public policies that we continue to create.

So we have to change the public policies as well as change the individuals who implement the policies as budgets relate to the hearts.

And the priorities of state governments.

The laws that we pass also related to those specials.

Yeah, I'm sorry, go ahead.

What they also with red line and now ladies enforce the discriminatory practices but also increase the greater wealth gap which allowed to perforce that socionomic aesthetics.

Also I just want to say within that is as we are working on it and everything else to kind of like ultimately eradicate racism in terms of certain acts right now.

So for instance a group called campaign 0.

They can't wait.

So in the same time where looking at the greater societal change, it's kind of like OK, but we still need to stop someone's brutality.

Some of these murders and it's kind of like there in the last six years from Ferguson I've looked at through data.

What are things that can be done to greatly reduce brutality and also, like these injustices, murders and they have like data show like we implement these practices?

It can drop by 72%.

So don't be wrong.

Completely eradicate racism, but also in the Meanwhile that's also improve the police brutality, right?

So like we can make changes now.

As we're going on this path, Ben ourselves as people 'cause I rather you be racist in black people still living.

Then as we almost there so we can still save lives right now.

As long as there is there a generational shift, an what activists are demanding, you know we had a comment from one of the viewers who sent us a common via Twitter and it kind of ties into some of what has been discussed.

The viewer writes the effect of racism in Arkansas limits the electorate from electing politicians that look like them.

It allows white politicians to anoint good Blacks, quote Unquote to represent the community, who in turn don't want to ruffle feathers.

And there's an aspect of the protests that are happening right now where people are saying enough is enough.

You know, you tell us that the what you should do is register to vote and then polling places are shut down and I'm standing in line for over 4 hours in my community because politicians already know if they hinder me from voting, they'll be able to keep certain people in place.

So what needs to happen right now?

What are young people doing and saying not only through these protests, but a willingness to just speak their minds openly and no longer feel like they have to couch their words in a particular way?

In order to play respectability politics, so I think there is a role for everyone and everything here, and I appreciate the Boldness and the candor of young protesters.

I think that they are the ones who have really pushed us to this place of realization, but I also recognize that there is a process and you cannot demand your way out of a process if you have nothing behind your demand.

So if we know that the process say is that you have to vote individuals in and out of office, that's the process.

It can change once you get individuals there that you want to change various policies, but there's still a process to even get to the other side.

So I think that there has to be not a but this but and in something else.

Sports in you talk about the vote and.

I think a lot of times as young people they focus only national vote on a more broader spectrum instead of the local vote.

That local vote, who do you put in your City Council sees?

Would you put in your share of seats?

Who you put in your Alderman seeds?

Who you bring your corn court seats?

State legislators that matters?

I think we dismissed it because we look at it from a virus spectrum.

But you know that vote matters as well and sometimes more so than the larger vote.

One of the things that.

Another listener road is that.

They said in a faculty meeting.

This is a black woman who is a professor and she felt re traumatized by her colleagues.

How do we work towards a real conversation about race relations and race consciousness where black people can be honest about their experiences without worrying about whether the white counterparts will get up in arms or participate in the conversation at all?

All I would like to say that we have to be prepared for people to be traumatized by what we say.

We have to be prepared for that and to know that that's a beginning, not an end.

And sometimes there is this desire to have people lean in and the things that we've been talking about have everything.

To help us understand that people are not prepared to lean in, it is a long journey and so our colleagues have to listen respectfully.

We have to listen to their craziness, that which we would call craziness or insensitivity.

And hopefully there's enough respect that in the long run we will come to a place where we understand and can communicate more effectively.

In some of this, bad attitude will cease and desist.

Two word in another phrase hopped out when you were saying that the first is hypocrisy in a sense of like Mal know any of my friends were going to professional spirits.

Fear we haven't been felt like ostracize or offended or were not black.

My black friends, right?

So we've been doing this is called Tuesday for us.

This is no big deal.

So sometimes now when we have to speak up and other people need faster cool like that's just part of not saying like lose your job 'cause I ain't gonna pay you for nothing for you.

But the same time like that's been going on with us forever.

So it's like if there's someone has to feel uncomfortable.

Cool, like most things, to get to progression, you have to have growing pains as part of it.

Like this.

Always comfortable then is it really pushing any boundaries?

The second aspect is self care to speak to the Black Communities 'cause it's like I notice those like an influx of like people reaching like non Blacks like reaching out and talking to all these type aspects and it's really kind of like we're being the victim but also having to play the Edgecator and all these other type roles and so sometimes it's like you know what I hate this YouTube.

This books there's movies like you could educate yourself on all that by yourself right now.

I'm doing this 'cause the myself care is 90 because I'm ducking out of the movement is because I need to refresh myself to be part of it and so it's kind of like you don't have to be feel like you have to be the edgecator an have to speak up all the time because right now we've been traumatized right?

So we have to kind of understand like to make sure to do the education to action.

We sometimes need self care so I think it's kind of also finding that balance because I found like afterwards a lot of white America came like OK.

What's the move?

Was the moon?

What's the mood like Brian told you, move like six months ago and you know say just want to eat like Taco Tuesday.

So now like let me kind of gather myself, You know?

Mostly I've been traumatized again, it's figure out the move, so self care and like it's going to be so uncomfortable conversation situation.

That's what it is.

Is he called change?

You gotta sometimes purchase every position and others to be comfortable feeling uncomfortable sometimes allows one room is not necessarily the smartest.

One room you gotta feel comfortable being uncomfortable sometimes.

I was reading some remarks from a sociologist and I like the way that they put it and sometimes it can make people feel uncomfortable, but this sociologist Scott Woods wrote that racism goes beyond conscious hate.

Racism is a complex system of social norms and political policies setup generations to go to advance the interests of whites at other peoples expense.

Whether whites know it or not, like it or not, accept it.

Or not so it exists.

It exists and an I heard this other statement about how it's almost like swimming in a stream and because of.

The racist constructs that exist you many times.

There are people in our communities who are able to swim with the current white.

People are able to swim with the current, but there are so many things that.

Hinder black folks and communities across this nation and in countless communities around the world.

From swimming in that direction without having to deal with those heavy currents.

What needs to happen?

They are going to be people who watch this program.

People who are in our workplaces who say I want to do something, but I'm not really sure what to do.

How can people work from where they are to bring about meaningful change?

I know doctor standefer, you've done a lot of work in terms of dispute resolution.

An one aspect of that is first getting people to come together and reason with one another and truly listen to each other.

What else do you think?

Can be helpful as these movements continue not only in terms of changing the way we police communities, but also in terms of bringing about meaningful change in terms of social socio economic issues.

I think it does start with listening first to beat ball an hearing people.

But The thing is, we teach people how to speak, but we don't ever teach people how to listen and people need to.

I can say I listen to you, but maybe all I've done is here what you said.

So I think that the one very important thing is getting people to actually listen.

And there are different ways that you can do that.

There's a reflective structure dialogue in which you go around and everyone tells his or her story, but nobody else can talk, and it is timed.

And there are other ways in which you have to paraphrase what people say until they say, yes, that's exactly what I was talking about, but I think that the listening to me is the first thing, and I guess that's pretty old-fashioned.

But that's to me, that's important.

People want to act.

People want to act up.

What can individuals do in order to make a difference in some way?

I would say that I'd say this often so people will know, I believe.

Encourage, right, you must be courageous to do this.

You must be courageous to speak up on behalf of other people who are suffering.

Or if you see something wrong and you have to practice courage every single day so you cannot do just one courageous act and say I've done it for the year.

I am courageous.

No practice encourage is something that we do every single day, every time we correct the wrong every time we stand in the gap for someone every time we practice we have, but we are vulnerable to someone else.

We are practicing courage because in the act of practicing it, it reminds me of a position or a lawyer.

They practice medison or practice law.

That means that they are discovering new things every single day about some aspect of law or.

Are Madison and so when you practice that thing, you get better and better and better at it.

And you're not so afraid when Goliath comes because you've already practiced what's in you for it to come out.

And so I would say courage is the biggest thing that people really should do at this moment, even when they don't know what to do.

They know the right thing to do.

So don't ask me what's right when you already know.

Just practice the courage to do it.

I think that's such a key point because.

Going to a rally going to a protest is important, but if we're going to do what is necessary to heal divides, that means you have to call colleagues out when they practice.

Discriminate Tori behavior in the workplace.

That means you have to call family members and friends out when they make racist remarks.

That means you have to hold politicians accountable when they use bigotry.

That's right to divide us as a wedge issue, what do you think about people want to get involved?

People want to do something to bring about change.

How can that happen?

I'll definitely build enough to make it today, like a quick editors are.

There was a show called iconic class where they put two luminaries together.

Dave Chappelle is one time with my Angel before she passed and she was talking about like he got start talking about like Malcolm X and Martin.

Now he was all inspired and how we would feel like completely not even know how to talk to him and she like checked them and she was like Woah Woah woah like understand these are just two dudes who made choices so these guys got to where they were because they made a choice today and then the next day and the next day next day and wake up as Martin Malcolm.

They woke up as two people to make choices.

So this is basically saying like never get intimidated, just understand you have choices to make that, and I think that's building off with Tamika said and also completely understanding that inaction is a choice too.

So if you choose not to say something you made your choice as well.

So a lot of this for me is like you don't have to be alive is overwhelming, but just understanding like a this is the one move I can make the day.

You know it sounds like this is the one thing I can do today.

I can send his email.

I can like call this person and check up on him.

I could tutor this child in the neighborhood.

I could use my skill to help somebody.

That's my one thing and then kind of keep building off that in like 10 years from now.

You'll be amazed what you did, but it starts this one brick at a time and you get to mention at the end of the day, gotta be willing to hold yourself accountable for action or inaction.

So got to be willing to understand that it's in the small things.

Small things matter.

Sometimes we believe that it has to be some large thing, and so that we are overwhelmed.

But when you think of the The Little Rock 9 or people like me, we went to school everyday and we succeeded as students and that was really important and nobody has to know your name.

You know so much of what are people stand on our nameless people who did made good choices.

Who gave a damn who cared?

And who believed that?

These United States can be a place where we can achieve a personal best everyday.

History is really made by those who show up and through those interactions both large and small want to bring about some sort of change.

You know, we continue to talk about these action items, whether it's individually or collectively wondering Sheriff Woods.

What do you think people can do recognizing what they're seeing through social media?

Recognizing that they want change to happen, whether it's through their interactions with law enforcement or just in general, which should happen as we move forward, getting involved and just not to be generally more specific.

You know people talking about you know, starting with something smaller and builder for net, I think just the smallest thing.

Obviously everything starts with a conversation, but based on the conversation you had to have some interaction and so actually has to take place to really solidify what it started with the conversation.

And without that you can't be effective.

You cannot an.

I think some people get discouraged because they do feel like well.

My idea may not be a big idea.

It may not be fruitful, may not be big enough, may not be bold enough, but I think if everybody thought that then we would get anywhere.

It takes.

The first step would be to do something in something beyond just talking about it.

Actually showing some action.

To add on to that point, because in anticipation of the show, one of the other viewers mentioned with everything that I see in my feeds on social media and conversations that I'm having with family, I'm getting depressed.

I'm getting depressed.

I recognize the importance of what's taking place in terms of the rallies and people holding elected officials accountable, but it still depressing.

That after all of these many years, we're still at this point.

To those who feel depressed.

Who feel like there is no hope, no matter how much we do, what would you say to re inspire them or to give them that courage that you mentioned anymore?

I came to the end of three years of my life with no one ever speaking to me.

And I wondered.

Does it matter?

But I believed that it mattered and how it mattered would only be told overtime, time matters and I would say to a person who feels hopeless.

If you look from slavery to now, things have changed.

Nothing changed as much as I sacrificed for, but I have not given up hope be cause there are real possibilities in with the young people stepping up in the broad coalitions there is.

Hope there is hope if I can say that there is hope.

Quick comments on that from pit for Jamaica Org.

Before we started to talk about how social movements now are like cells of people doing exciting things, there's a lot of Hope in that, and I think that narrative, that narrative, that talk of how young people are doing things in very different ways is an incredibly hopeful narrative.

Of that, like hope is powerful and then also just on the individual.

For that I see on a pragmatic level.

So once again just self care.

Like sometimes like literally, like I surround yourself with people who love you.

Go for a walk in nature, like just really pragmatic tips on like self care, because depression and mental issues and even you can argue like Pete ESD from some of the stuff going on so long as real.

So sometimes it's like OK I need to actually remove myself to actually.

Better myself first, because that's the only way I could play apart.

So sometimes just removal and being like it's not.

It's not bad.

It's not wrong.

We need you well to make us well so it's like sometimes it's really really taken care of yourself.

Change takes time, but we must persevere and have hope and remember self care matters.

Your Cup has to flow with over if you're going to bring about the change that you want to see in community and help people, well we have come to the end of our program.

Thank you to our panelists.

And the team that made this conversation possible in order to bring about meaningful change in Arkansas.

in America, we must work together to solve problems.

Improving race relations.

An ending racism requires compassion, conversations and courage.

We hope tonight was a step in that direction.

I'm doctor Malcolm Glover and from all of us here at Arkansas PBS, thank you for watching.